Australia v Scotland, 3:00pm 17 June Sydney Football Stadium

[Dave Beat]

Leaving out the turnovers that shows a side with no real idea in attack - hence the long pass try to Folau, the AFL cross kick and a dart from the base of a ruck.

I hate being critical, rather be constructive;
Who creates the attack,
Where do we attack,
What options are we creating,
I think four times we went for the line out option five meters out for the driving line out try and not even that worked.
https://www.facebook.com/Wallabies/videos/10155212865290731/

If that link didnt work - it was boys spending time in the gym looking pretty.

 

[Quick Hands]

The All Blacks would have beaten either of these teams by 50 on what we saw yesterday.

This has been 15 years in the making and is a direct result of the ARU top down model. I suspect that we are yet to hit rock bottom.

 

[Quick Hands]

I hate being critical, rather be constructive;
Who creates the attack,
Where do we attack,
What options are we creating,
I think four times we went for the line out option five meters out for the driving line out try and not even that worked.
https://www.facebook.com/Wallabies/videos/10155212865290731/

If that link didnt work - it was boys spending time in the gym looking pretty.

It's a bit like watching an under 10s match where the best player in the team makes all the breaks, gets the team going forward, chases down opposition breake to make the cover tackle and is in there stealing the ball at every breakdown. I get exhausted just watching Hooper play.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I hate being critical, rather be constructive;
Who creates the attack,
Where do we attack,
What options are we creating,
I think four times we went for the line out option five meters out for the driving line out try and not even that worked.
https://www.facebook.com/Wallabies/videos/10155212865290731/

If that link didnt work - it was boys spending time in the gym looking pretty.

Kicking for goal instead of line outs would have won the game but Im torn as to whether that is what we should have done.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I get exhausted just watching Hooper play.

After watching him for 80 minutes it feels like he's all that lies between us and oblivion

 

[Gillys_ghost]

Where to now? Surely there has to be a lot of changes next game. It's against Italy so I think if there was a game to make so ballsy decisions this should be it. surely even some of the better performers should be rested if it means trying something new. Surely blokes like latu, bill meakes, naivalu, Lukhan Tui, Timani, Lance (if he's not injured) or even Perese should get a look in. I don't care if there form has been down or if they seem too raw. What we are doing right now isn't working

 

[KOB1987]

I agree there will be some changes PT but they will come from players within the squad, Cheika won't bring in new players to the squad for this one game unless there is a key injury. Koroibete will probably get capped, Tui possibly as well.

 

[upthereds#!]

I must reiterate a couple stances I've taken on this forum, the fiji forum and wallabies 2016 and onwards.

We were SO happy when we discovered Coleman, Arnold and that Timani got a run because it allowed us to compete toe to toe with other big boys, guys like Hooper and Mcmahon got to excel where their strengths lie, and so did Pocock and Fardy. There was a balance. Again, in picking Carter AND Hanigan in the same team, we are TOO LIGHT in the contact zone. Cheika specifically said after Fiji, that we don't need to have a pilferer, because you can create turnovers by being the dominant force, well with two lightweights, even though I love their workrate, especially love Hanigans mongrel and POTENTIAL to be good, unfortunately, Higs and Hoops strengths do not come to the surface in rucks and mauls so poor Coleman and now TPN are left to be the enforcers all on their own. Robertson is impressively weak in the contact area for a prop though he did scrummage better.

I've read in those players ratings thing a couple times now that Robertson doesn't do much except scrum and even that % of success is questionable, and Hanigan is not showing the ball in hand prowess we have become use to. My problem is that this should not be a surprise.

As much as I love Hanigans clear die hard commitment, he needs time to actually become test quality, say....actually be the clear starting 6 at the Tahs and keep Dempsey out. And he needs to get gainz. period. This is not surprising considering he is only 20. With Pocock going to come back next year, Cheika needs to see Fardy as the best no.6 available (so fits in with his, 'has to be a starter' call), because we need some breakdown presence for the RC. Bring Hanigan to learn from Fardy as the backup 6, and let him take back over in the EOYT.

Higs has been doing really well, but we need another big body, either Timani starting so he can make big collisions, or Fardy starting so he can be the breakdown presence, so a guy like Higs can do what he does best, and that is create opportunities to score tries.

 

[KOB1987]

I don't disagree with that UTR but this June squad was largely developmental with an eye to the future, and that's why the Fardys of the world were left out. The RC squad will be the strongest available players.

Cheika figured that we could win these 3 games with such a squad. At the end of the day all we had to do to beat Scotland yesterday was execute the basics effectively. We tried, we failed.


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[Inside Shoulder]

^^^^^where does Moore fit in this future? He'll need to get an earlier bus

 

[Brumby Runner]

After reading all the comments there is one aspect I have to disagree with. There's a lot of posts at the start of the thread rubbishing the poor crowd. I was at the stadium and whilst it wasn't a sell out, it never was going to be, it was pretty bloody full. There was one area of empty seats on the eastern lower for some reason, but apart from that it was only the edges that were empty. Admittedly it didn't fill up until right on kick off so maybe there were some earlier shots the comments were based on.

IS what do you mean Scotland didn't have their best 10 available? Who is their best 10?

Edit: just read the crowd was 30,721. So not bad.

Yeah - looked to be in the vicinity of 5000 in each of the lower tiers on all four sides and probably another 5000 in each of the upper tiers along the sidelines. I thought it was quite a satisfactory turnout, but doubt that next week will be as good. No need just yet for the Sydney fans to start offering a smorgasbord of excuses for a totally unsatisfactory test crowd.

 

[gel]

Quite a bit of negativity towards the coaches, but at what point to the players actually have to take e responsibility for their own incompetence?

"something we've talked about all week" is a phrase used so often by the Australian rugby players - but never "something we worked on through the week".

Innumerable coaches across a wide range of teams and backgrounds, with a wide range of experience levels and successl rates make absolutely NO difference to the performance of the players. At all. The skill levels and performances by the players are inept at best.

The Australian rugby players simply must take responsibility for their own performances. Hire a personal skills coach out of their own (incredibly considerable) income.

The evidence of lack of individual professionalism is undeniable.

The coaches have some.imflience, for sure, but the players are notbehaving in a professional manner and until they do no amount of changes at a higher level will make one iota of difference.

 

[cyclopath]

Quite a bit of negativity towards the coaches, but at what point to the players actually have to take e responsibility for their own incompetence?

"something we've talked about all week" is a phrase used so often by the Australian rugby players - but never "something we worked on through the week".

Innumerable coaches across a wide range of teams and backgrounds, with a wide range of experience levels and successl rates make absolutely NO difference to the performance of the players. At all. The skill levels and performances by the players are inept at best.

The Australian rugby players simply must take responsibility for their own performances. Hire a personal skills coach out of their own (incredibly considerable) income.

The evidence of lack of individual professionalism is undeniable.

The coaches have some.imflience, for sure, but the players are notbehaving in a professional manner and until they do no amount of changes at a higher level will make one iota of difference.

Watching them warm up, when running at half pace unopposed the passes were OK, but as soon as they went a bit faster with some opposition, they seldom got more than 3 passes on the money, with at least one going behind / too low etc.... It was quite inaccurate, and it was predominantly the outside backs. They gotta practice to the level at which they want to play.

 

[Quick Hands]

No need just yet for the Sydney fans to start offering a smorgasbord of excuses for a totally unsatisfactory test crowd.

There are no excuses available:

3pm Saturday afternoon kick off at the SFS, fine and mild weather (no dew), we won the week before, we were expected (by many) to win this, Tier 1 opponent, no club rugby on, no junior rugby on, traffic was fine, car park wasn't full, public transport good, plenty of pubs and restaurants to visit.

I think that this covers most of the usual excuses and still we were about 15,000 under a sell out. Members area was chock a block, but plenty of vacant spaces elsewhere.

 

[Quick Hands]

Quite a bit of negativity towards the coaches, but at what point to the players actually have to take e responsibility for their own incompetence?

"something we've talked about all week" is a phrase used so often by the Australian rugby players - but never "something we worked on through the week".

Innumerable coaches across a wide range of teams and backgrounds, with a wide range of experience levels and successl rates make absolutely NO difference to the performance of the players. At all. The skill levels and performances by the players are inept at best.

The Australian rugby players simply must take responsibility for their own performances. Hire a personal skills coach out of their own (incredibly considerable) income.

The evidence of lack of individual professionalism is undeniable.

The coaches have some.imflience, for sure, but the players are notbehaving in a professional manner and until they do no amount of changes at a higher level will make one iota of difference.

I broadly agree. I'd add that the problems are systemic.

 

[gel]

The coach can only yell "faster" at the players so much.

The players have to push themselves at training - they quite clearly don't.

The evidence is in their performances.

Edit -this frustrating to watch week in week out.

 

[dru]

Also, this backline is full of Hooray Harry types who stand off the ruck waiting for offloads, instead of busting into it as the alpha.

Love this quote! However Pfitzy, I'm thinking better alpha from the pigs in the rucks was where this game was lost.

I'm left nursing a hangover as I didnt want to post last night. Closest comment here that matches my thoughts is UTR above #448.

The Scots worked the ruck using a northern ref, gave a lop-sided penalty count, but left the WBs skulking around wondering what to do. I cant blame Genia for his service when the pigs couldnt open access to the ball.

Similar issue withFoley when slow ball combined with an excellent Scot rush (or dodgy off side line by the ref, take your pick) meant they were able to target 1st reciever. I would usually expect 2nd reciever to be the target at test level.

The kicking was also due to this lack of breaking the gain line and a ball slow enough that a northern test was being played, not even at Soup speed.

It also largely made ineffective Coleman and Hooper in spite their impressive input.

Laughed at the pregame commentry that Cheika had learned his lesson and had enough line out jumpers. Line out here was our second worst problem.

I see posters rating our scrum, using it to justify the likes of Robertson. I just cant agree. Ref forced equality at the put in, we pushed over, from recollection approximately never.

Hanigan is a great PROSPECT, he is not imo, right now, a quality WB.

Great to see Quade give a good knock from the bench, but Foley did the hard yards, not well perhaps, but poster thinking Quade was better, I think, should consider the differences they faced.

I'm going to force myself to re-watch, but the problems seem to me to be:
x skills coaching
x no, not really passing/catching/kicking this time but ruck clearing
x Line Out. With Hooper a lock-in we need 4 genuine jumpers, or you need someone so bloody good with ruck alpha it negates the lack of a 4th jumper. Pocock when he returns maybe (double 7 again?). Right now for me its Fardy.

BTW posters continue to "thumbs down" Moore. I get that he is not our best hooker. But when he came on last night I thought he was one of our best Leaders.

It starts and finishes, with Cheika playing IMO, and experimental and unconvincing front row and an unbalanced back row. Complete lack of respect to the opposition who deserve to oust us from the world top five.

 

[fatprop]

The only word I can think that describes the effort yesterday is "passive".

No speed off the defensive lineout, no accuracy or speed to clean out.

Just lots of effort to get back into position and put your hand in the air.

The backrow is simply lacking. Hanigan was a boy against men, Higgers tried hard, but was ineffectual - he still should have been left on for Hanigan, Kurindrani was ponderously slow, Genia is too slow to the breakdown, too slow to kick, Nabuli needs too much space and time to get to speed - and doesn't work hard enough, DHP doesn't work hard enough off the ball. Hardwick is another man boy, we don't need two Hooper size units on the field at the same time

Now to the coaching, no line speed in defence, passive tackling, no attempt to slow down the ruck, no attacking the ball. Just fan out and passively tackle again.

TPN has a head clash, but is left on and his throwing goes to shit; why he wasn't accessed at that time with Moore coming on? we know how it works, TPN gets tired and/or his brains get smashed and his throwing deteriorates.

Then I expected a rocket to be stuck up their arses at half time, but nothing, no reaction.

Meh

 

[tragic]

I would say 9 is more of an issue. 14 points directly from a charged down kick and a very poor clearance from a lineout.
The two penalties in the Scottish quarter should have been shots at goal despite the fact that we came away with 7 points. It was early in a test and we should have taken the points to build our score.

Its is terribly disheartening and points towards the Wallabies having regressed further after a very disappointing 2016.

I agree 9 is also a major problem
Unfortunately we have little depth in either position.
There's been lots of discussion about changes to the forward pack despite winning the possession and territory, and securing enough clean ball to win the game.
Genia looked off, and both his and foleys kicking were atrocious.
Quade looked sharp when he came on but his kicking is equally flakey and his form has been very average this season..
Until we develop an international standard 9-10 combination our ranking slide will continue.
Regardless of how much we tinker with our back row.

 

[KOB1987]

^^^^^where does Moore fit in this future? He'll need to get an earlier bus

Well clearly he is being transitioned out. But in fairness, which hooker not already in the squad would you have ahead of him?


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