Australia v South Africa - Perth - 6 September 2014

[Highlander35]

Jones gets down and does the dirty crap for 2 bloody seasons, and no one even considers him for selection.

One bloody season as a wider running lock and people say, "oh, he's good, but he needs to do more tough stuff".

People have short memories.

I'm not necessarily saying he's up to it, just that to say Jones is too loose ignores 2 seasons worth of Super Rugby, and by a 23 year old nonetheless.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Simmons gave away one inexcusable penalty. One cost us 3 points on the back foot - if it turned into a try we would have lost. One he was thrown across a line out and may not have intended to actually infringe and I don't remember the other.

I don't think Simmons is the LH that will get us to number one but what's our better option?

As barbarian said he had an average game around the park.

Currently Carter is offering no more physicality than Simmons and less work rate.

Is Horwill a better option? Unsure

Then Skelton has been struggling too at times and has set piece woes which could make things worse.

I'm not championing the bloke. But to say he has to be dropped is stupid. He might be, but it's a close call anyway we go.

 

[Pfitzy]

One he was thrown across a line out and may not have intended to actually infringe

His first step was into the gap, then he jumped, further into gap. As his lifters did NOT step into the gap (I.e. following the Laws), WTF were they supposed to do exactly?

He clearly wraps his arms around his opponent despite having no need to do so.

Your continued attempt to defend him is passing comic warp 5 and heading for ludicrous speed.

 

[Lorenzo]

No worries. After being easily accounted for by Pat Laefa, Sam Jeffries, etc I'm sure he will just run straight through Bismark Du Plesis and Estebeth then

Because last night's performance was so convincing that we should retain the incumbents and not take any risk on possible replacements?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Because last night's performance was so convincing that we should retain the incumbents and not take any risk on possible replacements?

No. But players shouldn't just be picked based on not being there to underperform.

 

[Wilson]

Realistically we are going to need to give someone else some game time calling line outs before the world cup, to go in with only one player experienced in it with the side would be asking for trouble, regardless of how well he's otherwise playing. Given we've got 4-5 guys competing for the lock spots with no one really claiming one as there own it might be time to rotate Simo out and take a look at how Horwill or Higgers go running the line out. Its also worth noting that in all the Locks we've tried this year, Simo has always been half the combo, so it maybe worth seeing how others pair.

 

[Pfitzy]

And maybe Simmons will benefit from the break?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Problem is Carter is been the weakest link and Skelton isn't going to get what we need. But your point is certainly right. I'd like to see a Horwill/Jones or Neville combo with Skelton on the pine

 

[Train Without a Station]

No point running him from the bench. We know what we're getting and he's a more 80 minute work rate than impact player.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Watched the replay after the hangover subsided and a number of things occurred to me:

- We weren't that bad, but there are definitely issues that need to be rectified
- That 25 minute fade out in the second half was as alarming watching it a second time as it was live at the game. As Barbs and others have said, our kicking game was ordinary during this period and made life hard for us. We just couldn't get out of our 22 during that period.
- We were lucky, especially at the end. Then again you've still got take advantage of those situations and still bank the points. We did that by staying composed and doing the necessary at the end. In previous years we would have bottled it and lost.
- We need more dynamism in the loose from the pack. There have to be more blokes sticking their hands up for some hard carries in close to get us moving forward. There were times when we did it last night and we went well. Other times we got too static and the Bok back row were all over us at the breakdown. Penalties ensued.
- Link used the bench well. Nearly all of the blokes who came on made an impact and that's what you want. KB (Kurtley Beale) and Higgers especially upped the pace of the game, which is how we play our best footy.
- The set pieces were pretty variable. We were pretty ordinary in the lineout, though that is forgivable to a degree with the issues we've had at hooker. The scrum was shaky at times too. We need to fix it against the Argies next week.
- Our discipline will need to be a lot better next week, because the Argies won't hesitate to go for the sticks if we transgress. We don't want to get into a slog fest with these guys.
- Some of our option taking was poor. A couple of those quick taps weren't great and if the boys had their time over you'd like to think they would have kicked for the line. Izzy also had a poor passing game too. Way too many marginal balls when we were on attack.
- Some of the support play was very good and it's when we looked at our best. We looked to put some pace on the game and we need to do it more often.
- The halves were better, especially Phipps. Much snappier service from the breakdown overall and no box kicking!
- Tevita was outstanding and may have nailed down that 13 jersey. To'omua combined well with him and our midfield defence was excellent.

 

[Wilson]

Problem is Carter is been the weakest link and Skelton isn't going to get what we need. But your point is certainly right. I'd like to see a Horwill/Jones or Neville combo with Skelton on the pine

Yeah it's a tricky situation, particularly with the Argies really demonstrating their scrummaging prowess this year. If everyone is fit I'd be going with Carter and Horwill to start, but if Slipper is injured or in need of a rest I'd probably go with Simo and Horwill to offer the most stable base in the scrum. Maybe still hand the lineouts to someone else, but given no one wants to be the first to lose to Argentina experimentation may have to wait till the EOYT. Really wish tour games/Australia A were still a viable option to sort some of this stuff out.

 

[Pfitzy]

Argie starting tight five are pretty good, though its worth noting that Whitelock was also out early so that affected the ABs.

Once the Argies started replacing guys though it went the other way quite a bit.

 

[qwerty51]

Tomas Lavanini also got suspended for one game.

 

[Biffo]

Tomas Lavanini also got suspended for one game.

for what?

 

[Pfitzy]

Landing on Richie McCaw with intent to de-mystify

 

[ChargerWA]

Attacking the head IMO. The player with their head down over the ruck on their feet need to protected from thuggish attempts to disable them, even I they are Richie McCaw.

 

[Pjmil]

I have never understood how people can make assessments on the scrummaging ability of locks. What evidence do you have to go off? Have you scrummed alongside them?
.

You must of been a back or a bludging back rower who puts the fate of the entire scrum on the Props.

 

[Pfitzy]

He's a second rower, only because he's tall-ish.

Some scrums you can definitely tell when the 2nd row is not doing his work. But its a lot easier to know when you're the prop getting smashed because of it

 

[barbarian]

You must of been a back or a bludging back rower who puts the fate of the entire scrum on the Props.

Nope, a second rower, and a bloody terrible one at that.

I just think from the sideline (or the couch) it is hard to say conclusively that one second rower is better than another at the scrum, and how much a scrum failure is due to a prop or those behind him.
.

 

[Pfitzy]

If you can get a decent overhead shot its a bit easier. when you can tell looking from side on, you know its gone horribly bad.