Australia Vs Argentina, September 13, Gold Coast
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T
Train Without a Station
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Got out of jail? We bombed something like 2 certain tries as well as a few other opportunities. That's before we even consider where their prop was penalized for coming in from the side of a maul marching forward 5m out probably should have conceded either a penalty try or more likely yellow card.
How many times did the Puma's even have the ball inside our 22?
We might not have capitalized on all of our opportunities but we certainly didn't "get out of jail". It would have been one of the all time lucky wins if Argentina won.
How many times did the Puma's even have the ball inside our 22?
We might not have capitalized on all of our opportunities but we certainly didn't "get out of jail". It would have been one of the all time lucky wins if Argentina won.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
We were close to conceding an unsatisfying draw.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
His distribution has been poor. Something that was the highlight of his super rugby season. I am confident he is a superb distributor some of his short balls in the past 2 years have been world-class. He is a great play-maker at super rugby level but hasn't been able to translate this to Test level.
So in a way he is in poor form with poor passes. I think this is mainly due to him adapting to the position.
IMO he just needs time to adapt, I'd like to see him hitting the ball at pace a lot more and I'd like to see his distribution get back to being great. Need a bit more balance in his game. Defence has always been good.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
I think a lot of people still have the 50+ demolition the ABs gave us a couple of weeks ago in their minds. To get out of the slump a convincing win or a thrashing of a much lesser opponent was needed.
Instead we came close to a draw. It's games like that we expect to put the knife-in and be ruthless. We dominated possession for large parts but some-how was unable to translate that into tries.
If we had won against the AB's at Eden park I'm sure everyone's mind-set would be more positive.
the world is full of 12s who aren't great at distribution, and he isn't too bad.
I just think we can be a bit glass half full at times, in reality we have no one better and his strengths out way his weaknesses.
T
Train Without a Station
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Well people need to get some realistic expectations Seb.
In 2013 we won this fixture 14-13. In 2012 we won it 23-19.
This year the Puma's have continued to push the Springboks and the All Blacks. If anybody expected a thrashing I'd love to know where they expected it from.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
There is no such thing as a perfect rugby team and perfect performance.
All players to some degree make mistakes or errors of judgment in the heat of battle.
People criticise Fardy Foley White Keps, Simmo, carter and everyone else to varying degrees.
To win a match we need more of our players making less mistakes than the other blokes
All players to some degree make mistakes or errors of judgment in the heat of battle.
People criticise Fardy Foley White Keps, Simmo, carter and everyone else to varying degrees.
To win a match we need more of our players making less mistakes than the other blokes
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
I think you may have mis-interpreted my post. I actually think he is a great distributor but is in poor form at the moment in that area, which is the main reason I can see why he is being criticised.
I'm definitely positive about his games, as you mentioned he has done very well in other areas, but I do understand where some criticism is coming from - which I also believe will be short lived once he starts developing into the position even more.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
I guess we are still living in the Larkham/Horan days where more often then not we would thrashed any team not in the top 5.
I think you bring up a great point. We under-estimate Argentina. I admit I'm guilty of that.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
The late break from the Puma 10 was because of a defensive screw up between Beale and Foley. It was a dirt simple blocking play, with Beale defending in the first channel and Foley outside him. The ball went behind the blocker to the Puma 10 (Sanchez?), and Beale lazily ran into the blocker and threw up his hands, making no effort.
It's that kind of stuff that Beale has to fix before I would consider starting him again.
Foley probably should have come in after that, man for man outside of Foley we had them covered, but it seemed like to me the initial screw up was Beale.
Anyway, I thought that To'omua was very good against the Boks, but no doubt he'd be disappointed in the amount of turnovers he gave up against the Pumas.
It's that kind of stuff that Beale has to fix before I would consider starting him again.
Foley probably should have come in after that, man for man outside of Foley we had them covered, but it seemed like to me the initial screw up was Beale.
Anyway, I thought that To'omua was very good against the Boks, but no doubt he'd be disappointed in the amount of turnovers he gave up against the Pumas.
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
9 & 10 won't change, but as much as this will get shot down there is a case to start Beale over To'omua..this is more to do with the latter's lack of form..he was pretty good against the Boks but aside from that has had a pretty quiet test season and not really fulfilling the role of second playmaker..and it worked for the Tahs so why not? Don't shoot the messenger..
Apart from a couple of looping passes that Matt sent to the wingers, I think he probably played the exact role of 12 set by the coaching staff. Despite claims here to the contrary, he hit the ball up in a straight line often getting over the gain line, and he came into 10 a number of times to take the ball at first receiver. I'd like to see him put the ball through his nearest supports rather than try the long looping passes and I think that would improve his and the whole backline's play.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Just for reference, our last year of fixtures has been:
13/9/14 – Australia 32 – Argentina 25
6/9/14 – Australia 24 – South Africa 23
23/8/14 – New Zealand 51 – Australia 20
16/8/14 – Australia 12 – New Zealand 12
21/6/14 – Australia 39 – France 13
14/6/14 – Australia 6 – France 0
7/6/14 – Australia 50 – France 23
30/11/13 Australia 30 – Wales 26
23/11/13 – Australia 21 – Scotland 15
16/11/13 – Australia 32 – Ireland 15
9/11/13 – Australia 50 – Italy 20
2/11/13 – England 20 – Australia 13
19/10/13 – New Zealand 41 – Australia 33
5/10/13 – Australia 54 – Argentina 17
28/9/13 – South Africa 28 – Australia 8
4 of those 15 games have been wins by 20 points or greater. 6 of those games have been against teams ranked higher than us at the time (NZ, SA and Eng). That leaves 5 closer wins against lower ranked teams. One was an easy victory against Ireland, so that leaves 4 actual tight results. One was the weekend which Argentina were 7 points down, but never really accumulated pressure and challenged. One was part of a 3 test series where we dished out hidings on either side, and the other two were away games on a 4 week tour.
13/9/14 – Australia 32 – Argentina 25
6/9/14 – Australia 24 – South Africa 23
23/8/14 – New Zealand 51 – Australia 20
16/8/14 – Australia 12 – New Zealand 12
21/6/14 – Australia 39 – France 13
14/6/14 – Australia 6 – France 0
7/6/14 – Australia 50 – France 23
30/11/13 Australia 30 – Wales 26
23/11/13 – Australia 21 – Scotland 15
16/11/13 – Australia 32 – Ireland 15
9/11/13 – Australia 50 – Italy 20
2/11/13 – England 20 – Australia 13
19/10/13 – New Zealand 41 – Australia 33
5/10/13 – Australia 54 – Argentina 17
28/9/13 – South Africa 28 – Australia 8
4 of those 15 games have been wins by 20 points or greater. 6 of those games have been against teams ranked higher than us at the time (NZ, SA and Eng). That leaves 5 closer wins against lower ranked teams. One was an easy victory against Ireland, so that leaves 4 actual tight results. One was the weekend which Argentina were 7 points down, but never really accumulated pressure and challenged. One was part of a 3 test series where we dished out hidings on either side, and the other two were away games on a 4 week tour.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
I thought that the reason the Pumas came back against us was a lot about the set piece. We lost two of our own lineouts (one not straight, one that was too low and picked off), and then our scrum was basically going backwards from 55 minutes on meaning that Argentina dominated territory.
The set piece issues allowed the Pumas to stay camped in our territory, then silly errors like Horne losing the ball after we hold onto a 5m scrum compounded them.
It just highlights how important your set piece is at test level.
The set piece issues allowed the Pumas to stay camped in our territory, then silly errors like Horne losing the ball after we hold onto a 5m scrum compounded them.
It just highlights how important your set piece is at test level.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
These games were funny ones, as though they were both within a converted try, I always felt as if we were safe and were comfortably the better side.
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
Having had 50 points put on us by the ABs sticks in our collective craw. Putting 50 points on the opposition three times seems easy to forget. Funny that.
KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
I am a big believer in MT and feel that when the RWC comes around he will be one of the first picked..however, 1) he isn't playing his best footy and 2) he isn't playing where he has been all year. The former is no doubt a function of the latter. And I really hope that if Link is going to keep picking him at 12 that the Brumbies play him there too next year, otherwise I'd rather see him at 10..international rugby isn't the place to be 'adapting' to a position..
If there is one spot left in the backline and it's out of To'omua and Beale, then everything being equal I'd give it to To'omua..the case for starting with Beale at 12 has nothing to do with who is the better player, it's about starting with Beale and finishing with To'omua, rather than the other way way around as has been the case..this would revolve around opening with a fast, attacking game plan, and finishing with a more conservative defence orientated plan..i.e. plan to get a bit of a lead and then defend it and/or build on it..
Beale is an unusual case because only about 50% of people think he should be in the starting line-up somewhere but very little agreement amongst those as to where, and 95% of people think he should be in the 23..so it's a matter of working out the best way to use him, and maybe it's a game by game decision..
If there is one spot left in the backline and it's out of To'omua and Beale, then everything being equal I'd give it to To'omua..the case for starting with Beale at 12 has nothing to do with who is the better player, it's about starting with Beale and finishing with To'omua, rather than the other way way around as has been the case..this would revolve around opening with a fast, attacking game plan, and finishing with a more conservative defence orientated plan..i.e. plan to get a bit of a lead and then defend it and/or build on it..
Beale is an unusual case because only about 50% of people think he should be in the starting line-up somewhere but very little agreement amongst those as to where, and 95% of people think he should be in the 23..so it's a matter of working out the best way to use him, and maybe it's a game by game decision..
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Until Beale can defend and take contact to a level that 90% of regular Super Rugby players can, the Wallabies will be better off when they have no need for him in a team. He will always be a risk in defensive and a risk in contact the way he currently performs. Flyhalf was the best position to minimize those risks and he struggled to have an impact there.
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