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Australia Vs. England, Twickenham, 2nd November 2013

Discussion in 'Rugby Matches' started by ChargerWA, Oct 19, 2013.

  1. ChargerWA Mark Loane (55)

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    Well the last game vs the ABs has thrown up some interesting conundrums in regards to player positions. If Cummins is fit I feel he should go back to a wing and Fardy is a no brainer with McCalman back to the bench.

    The big question mark is 12. Do we trust QC can get the job done with the tee and leave Toomua at 12 or has Lilo proven enough through the RC to entitle the starting jersey back?

    Would love to see Fatcat start, but it just doesn't look like Ewen is changing his front row combo. Either way, hope the Wallabies are focusing on the scrum. When we don't focus on it we get bent. When everyone is saying we are going to get munted the boys seem to concentrate more and achieve better results.

    If we win this one I tip a grand slam.
  2. Bairdy Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    I think Link sees the front row of Slipper, Moore and Alexander as ideal to start the game, for their workrate, with the impact of Robinson and Kepu to come on later. Personally, I would like to see it the other way around.

    With regards to QC's kicking, if he continues to kick like he did tonight, I have no issue with Toomua as the incumbent this year and next, and for Lealiifano to have to fight with his Brumbies teammate for the starting berth. Not a bad thing to have - two quality 12 candidates.

    I tip a grand slam when we beat all 4 Home Nations ;)
  3. Penguin Arch Winning (36)

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    Toomua did more with the ball in one game at 12 that Lilo has done in the whole Rugby Championship. It's a no brainer for me, you don't just pick a bloke for his goal kicking, especially if he's gonna prevent you from scoring tries!
    gbp, Richo, AngrySeahorse and 6 others like this.
  4. Brumby Runner John Eales (66)

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    Last two tests, the best the Wallabies have played in many years, the starting scrum has had at least parity with the Argies and ABs. Can't see Link changing it. Without Corbisiero, the English FR doesn't look so challenging.
  5. ChargerWA Mark Loane (55)

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    So
    So Slipper getting yellow carded Vs the Argies on the 5m line after getting constantly penalised in a scrum was a figment of my imagination? At the same time Alexander was on a final warning for a yellow card. Either of them could have gone to the bin.

    To claim parity is a joke. Bumbled our way through without getting pumped would be a more apt description. Including yesterday, the ABs clearly had the upper hand except for one scrum where it looked like we managed to separate their TH and drive through. Ben McCalman trying to pick up the ball at the back of the scrum as our front row was shoved skyward was heart in the mouth stuff.

    I do get your point that we have managed to mostly get by without getting too badly munted, but that's only in comparison to how bad we all know it could have been.
  6. troxler Sydney Middleton (9)

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    Got a feeling Wallabies will win this game comfortably, the last two games the team seems to be adjusting to Ewen's game plan and we are seeing some better efforts.

    A big factor will be the poms have just under 2 weeks together and no warmup game beforehand, unlike Fiji in 2012 . They will take on the Wobs who have just played 7 games together and should better placed.
  7. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    I'd like to see us put this team on the park.

    Robinson
    Moore
    Alexander
    Fardy
    Simmons
    Mowen (c)
    Hooper
    McCalman
    Genia
    Cooper
    Betham
    Toomua
    Kuridrani
    AAC
    Folau

    TPN, Kepu, Slipper, Horwill, Gill/Dennis, White, Foley, Lealiifano

    Slipper had one of his worst tests in a long time and I think he deserves to ride the pine for a match. Robbo certainly has shown enough that he deserves a start.

    Horwill has been very poor and I think McCalman deserves another test starting. Simmons has done more to stay in the starting lineup and Fardy must return to the starting side. He's been our best forward through the Rugby Championship.

    Toomua showed more at 12 than Lealiifano has and deserves another crack.

    Betham did enough to get another game.

    It will be great to have TPN back if he's fit. Harsh on Fainga'a as he's been good off the bench. I'd give Moore a rest against Italy, give Fainga'a a start there and have TPN on the bench again. Moore can return as a starter for the third test on tour.
  8. Brumby Runner John Eales (66)

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    On the Dunedin test match thread I expressed my preference for Slipper to go back to TH and for Alexander to back up Robbo at LH. Therefore, I would like to see the front row as Robbo, Moore, Slipper to start.

    I agree with your locks, although its a pity we don't have a lock who can impose himself physically on the game to take Simmo's spot.

    Ben McC at 8 is ok only because there is no better. Again, he doesn't seem to be able to physically impose himself on the opposition in contact. No 7 is a bit up in the air. Hooper is a phenomenal player in most regards but doesn't pilfer the way we like to see in a 7. Gill might be better for that but Hooper's running game has been a thorn in the side of NH teams. A toss up.

    I would like to see Tomane and Cummins return on the wings, but otherwise the backline is starting to look very established. Betham was good but he was simply a replacement for one of the other two, and if fit, they should resume their spots. Although he has been one of the best backs over the years, AAC to the bench. Think he is about to be overtaken by TK at No 13, and others are better on the wing.
  9. Tangawizi Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    What about Lealifano to fullback and Folau pushing out to wing ahead of Betham?

    I think that would work pretty well.

    I can't see Horwill being dropped. I suspect his hamstring problems are still niggling so just needs to try get it right and fire up again.
  10. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    I thought McCalman was alright but certainly didn't have the impact he did off the bench against South Africa.

    It is obvious that Fardy has to come back and if we're looking at removing the weakest player outside the front row then right now that would be Horwill.

    I liken Hooper's performence on the weekend to his early season with the Tahs. He was having to get through so much of the work of other forwards who weren't pulling their weight that he had little effect at the breakdown. Once the other forwards improved, Hooper suddenly had a huge impact at the breakdown.

    I think Gill would have been in a similar position on Saturday. Doing too much work you'd prefer other forwards to be doing that they have less impact at their key job.

    If we're going to move Folau to the wing, I'd prefer Foley to get a run at fullback. Cooper's peerless goalkicking performance showed that we don't have to put Lilo back in the side for his kicking and he certainly hasn't done enough in general play to make him an essential inclusion.

    I'd be quite interested in Stephen Larkham's response to Toomua's game and whether it's making him think that switching Lilo and Toomua next season at the Brumbies is worth a try.
  11. Mark Sads Frank Row (1)

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    Boys, everytime we go to the UK and Europe; all I hear and read is how our scrum will be destroyed. Besides Italy, I am yet to see this happen since 2005.
  12. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Did you miss the test against France last year?
  13. Slim 293 George Gregan (70)

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    It'd be an interesting experiment, although I can see why Lilo would be considered the better 12... but I think the ankle fracture has affected his ability to slice through defenders off that right foot step that had been a trademark of his...

    I've generally thought of Toomua as a traditional flyhalf, but his hard running and equally strong defence do provide us with a stiffer midfield but with ballskills....
  14. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Up until very recently, I think Lilo would have been almost universally considered the better footballer in general.

    You'd have to say that in general Toomua plays with less flair than Lilo and is definitely a stronger and more punishing defender.

    There's a lot about Toomua's game that could make him a very good 12, particularly in the second five vein.

    Anyway, it will be interesting. Saturday night's game certainly provided plenty of food for thought regarding where Toomua can excell.
  15. Scrubber2050 Mark Ella (57)

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    To me, it was interesting that Slipper went to THP for 10 minutes when Robbo came on - this definitely is indicative that Link is not happy with Benny A or Kepu. Whlst Slipper is probably the starting LHP, based on performance (whilst Robbo was for the past 2 years based on past performances prior to that 2 years) we'll see if Link starts with Robbo, Moore and Slipper - that probably would be the best front row we can put out there. The concern is the replacements (on both sides)

    Horwill MUST be feeling some pressure ATM. Great to see QC getting back towards his best. Just cannot wait for Pocock to do a bit of pilfering.

    Anyway the performance on the weekend was ANOTHER step in the right direction - bring on the POMS
  16. BDA Peter Johnson (47)

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    You're either not watching all the game or you're memory is failing you. There has been a handful since 2005. In fact I'd say probably on average 1 game each year on tour where we are put under immense pressure at scrum time. Not destroyed but certainly dominated.

    The problem seems to be less about the personnel and more the ability to be consistent. The Wobs scrum can hold its own when they concentrate on that area, but it seems almost inevitable that they'll turn up to one of these games, the backrow will be standing round like mercats at the back of the scrum, alexander will forget how to bind and the Wobs completely lose their shape.
    ChargerWA likes this.
  17. BDA Peter Johnson (47)

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    My team for the England match
    Robbo
    Moore
    Kepu
    Horwill
    Simmons
    Fardy
    Hooper
    Mowen
    Genia
    Cooper
    Tomane
    Toomua
    Kuridrani
    AAC
    Folau

    TPN, Slipper, Alexander, Timani, Gill, White, Lealiifano, Cummins/Betham (toss a coin).

    England will look to the scrum first and foremost as a place to gain some traction. I think it would be best to silence the crowd early by starting with our two best scrummaging front rowers, then try to run the English forwards off the park late in the game.

    Really tempted to replace Hooper with Gill. I'm not sure Hooper is playing the role we need him to. Gill is much more accurate at the breakdown.
    jamey jones and Penguin like this.
  18. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    On Saturday, I think our backrow had to pick up a lot of slack for Slipper, Alexander and Horwill around the park.

    I don't think anyone playing in the backrow is going to be effective at their role if we have multiple other forwards playing poorly.
    The Incredible Plan likes this.
  19. Blue Andrew Slack (58)

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    Seriously can't understand how people want to keep picking Alexander and Slipper to start.

    They must be two of the worst first-tier test props when it comes to manning up at the breakdown in defense and attack.

    Go watch the match and keep an eye on them. They just don't make an impact. And when Slipper carries he runs link he has a broom up his arse and gets trashed.

    Carrying is a bonus with props but jeez you need to be able to move bodies for 80 mins and these guys are simply not good enough at it.

    You need Horwill to get back to form to deal with the heathen packs. He seems to have lost his mojo and it is affecting you big time because he needs to be blazing the trail and he is off the pace.
    The Incredible Plan likes this.
  20. Blue Andrew Slack (58)

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    You are dropping Mowen for the same reason you are questioning Hooper. It is neither their fault. The fat boys are not delivering and hence they both struggle to make an impact.Gill would have done no better last week and dropping Mowen for Dennis is just not going to help you guys in any way.

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