Australian Schoolboys 2014

[Brainstrust]

Don't use GPS selections as a guide to rankings in the real world.
Selections in GPS 1's or2's is all about politics not performance.
The facts are,that in 1/2 the cases,players are selected/omitted sight unseen.
Fact.

I'm not referring to what team he was in, I'm referring to the quality of opposition he was playing. The lack of depth in CAS was shown by how they were smashed by GPS 2's. Anyone of the GPS 1 players would have easily performed at that level if not higher against weak opposition. My point around these types of calls by selectors is that if you're going outside the box on these calls, the player really should have been tested against the best opposition available at some time to make that call. As far as I'm concerned, and I'm a NSW supporter is that the qld 1, #8 should have been the second back rower picked behind Crighton. And to support this, go back to when Phil Waugh was at the top of his game, very effective at the super rugby level, but when he went to test rugby he was just too small. Now to add, this kid is going to be something special, but at his current size against a powerful NZ pack, I think he will struggle to be effective. Sometimes pushing these kids too early, especially forwards, is not a good thing.

 

[Braveheart81]

And to support this, go back to when Phil Waugh was at the top of his game, very effective at the super rugby level, but when he went to test rugby he was just too small.

The same Phil Waugh that played 79 tests for Australia?

 

[Brian Westlake]

Definitely a vice captain as well....

 

[Brian Westlake]

And Captain 3 times. Wish I was that small.

 

[Brainstrust]

And Captain 3 times. Wish I was that small.

true and good point, but i think you know what I mean. Ive seen him play a bit, and I am a fan, but there were others who IMHO are in front for a school boy jersey at this stage. I believe that its pretty poor for the boys who put it all on the line at the national championships, played very well, to be over looked for a player that is unproven at that level. Otherwise what's the point of the nationals anyway?

 

[I like to watch]

I'm not referring to what team he was in, I'm referring to the quality of opposition he was playing. The lack of depth in CAS was shown by how they were smashed by GPS 2's. Anyone of the GPS 1 players would have easily performed at that level if not higher against weak opposition. My point around these types of calls by selectors is that if you're going outside the box on these calls, the player really should have been tested against the best opposition available at some time to make that call. As far as I'm concerned, and I'm a NSW supporter is that the qld 1, #8 should have been the second back rower picked behind Crighton. And to support this, go back to when Phil Waugh was at the top of his game, very effective at the super rugby level, but when he went to test rugby he was just too small. Now to add, this kid is going to be something special, but at his current size against a powerful NZ pack, I think he will struggle to be effective. Sometimes pushing these kids too early, especially forwards, is not a good thing.

I know exactly what you are saying,but you can't exclude GPS 2's boys from selections can you?
Regarding size,I thought exactly the same about McCalman last year.
But every time he got lucky with selectors and made the next level,he excelled.

There are no absolute answers in regards to selections in any environment.
Some will be perceived as lucky, but more will be considered unlucky.
That's the nature of the beast.

 

[Braveheart81]

true and good point, but i think you know what I mean. Ive seen him play a bit, and I am a fan, but there were others who IMHO are in front for a school boy jersey at this stage. I believe that its pretty poor for the boys who put it all on the line at the national championships, played very well, to be over looked for a player that is unproven at that level. Otherwise what's the point of the nationals anyway?

As you've said, it's just your opinion. The selectors obviously thought otherwise.

The national championships are an event unto themselves. They don't exist purely so an Australian Schoolboys team can be selected.

This is similar to posts where people suggest that the match between GPS and CAS was really close therefore selections in NSW 1s should be more even or that NSW II beat Qld I so NSW II should get more representatives in the Australian Schoolboys than they did.

Selections aren't based off single games and the result of a team overall doesn't have a direct correlation to the results at the selection table of individual players within a team.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Ray Price was only 76 kg back in the day.

The lad must be doing something well if he has indeed been selected. The only selector that would have seen him play would have been Manu Sutherland, unless the QLD based selectors attended NSW Schools Champs, or if the QLD based selectors watched the TSS vs Scots game.

Additionally he is part of the Scots 1st XV that has swept all in front of it this year, yet until now have only managed to have one player selected for Schoolboys. Joeys conversely managed to have two key players selected to Schoolboys, having had 50 points put on them by Scots.

McCalman has played some Third Grade footy this year for University, so size isn't everything. All the proponents of Waugh (and McCalman) need to remember that neither were selected primarily as a No 8 which the suggestion is that this lad has been chosen for.

IMHO size does matter for a No 8, much more so than for an Openside Flanker. This returns to my thoughts that the lad has been chosen for a #7, with Blake, Chrichton and Summerhayes being in the mix as probable #8's. The selection seemed to be a little light on for specialised OSF.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Ray Price was only 76 kg back in the day.

Me too, but I digress.
It may be that loaded down with a central otago pinot and some a number of peroni (the plural may be perona) I am more philosophical than usual but-
this is the thing about under age rep selection: its based on variable comps in which no one knows what the ground rules are or precisely who the candidates are.
O'Shea is GPS IIs 5/8 and then McGregor gets picked at 15 in NSW IIs and O'Shea goes from the 2nd best 10 in GPS to the best 10 in Australia.
Im not saying he is or he isn't, or that McGregor is or isn't or that CHS, ISA, AICES, CCC did not have better players in both positions to say nothing of the QLD, VIC, ACTY, WA schools of which I know nothing
When they are men and they are judged week to week in essentially the same comps the cream rises and the kids who were good kid footballers are still blokes who were good as kids. and that's great for them.
Its a long run this - and what happened when you were 18 seldom determines the course of your life.
Look at Thorpie - and look at the 18 y.o prodigies in our game who go on to do other things.
There's more to life than under age rugby - but life is the better for it.

 

[Jasdec]

When they are men and they are judged week to week in essentially the same comps the cream rises and the kids who were good kid footballers are still blokes who were good as kids. and that's great for them.
Its a long run this - and what happened when you were 18 seldom determines the course of your life.
Look at Thorpie - and look at the 18 y.o prodigies in our game who go on to do other things.
There's more to life than under age rugby - but life is the better for it.

Apparently the School has confirmed that Mr Smith has been named in the shadow side.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Apparently the School has confirmed that Mr Smith has been named in the shadow side.

Does that mean there are still 3 to be added to the touring squad?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

This little guessing game is nearly as good as the annual NSW Schools vs SJRU vs NSW Country Under 16's Selections.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This little guessing game is nearly as good as the annual NSW Schools vs SJRU vs NSW Country Under 16's Selections.

Obviously they saw an opportunity and decided to see if they could occupy the space

 

[Galloper]

It may be that loaded down with a central otago pinot and some a number of peroni (the plural may be perona) I am more philosophical than usual but-
this is the thing about under age rep selection: its based on variable comps in which no one knows what the ground rules are or precisely who the candidates are.

Inside Shoulder, Yesterday at 3:45 PM

At the risk of further digression I/S, the bolded reference above is of great concern.

Surely no self-respecting Barrister would be consuming Central Otago gear unless no Burgundy was available (even Village level).

This forum is going to the dogs....

 

[I like to watch]

I'm willing to give IS the benefit of the doubt,and assume he was only drinking that muck because it went well with the pheasant.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I wasn't buying, nor was I complaining

 

[Jasdec]

I'm willing to give IS the benefit of the doubt,and assume he was only drinking that muck because it went well with the pheasant.

I thought IS's post made a lot of sense. Some would argue that he should drink more/often before he posts.
Did the pheasant plucker's son get a callup in any rep team?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I thought IS's post made a lot of sense. Some would argue that he should drink more/often before he posts.
Did the pheasant plucker's son get a callup in any rep team?

for all you know I couldn't drink more before I post
who is the pleasant phucker?

 

[Galloper]

for all you know I couldn't drink more before I post
who is the pleasant phucker?

All I know is is that after reading about IS's wine misadventures I felt the obligation to have a 2002 GC with lunch today, not a NZ wine in sight.

Malheureusement I was paying, but in this case happily so.

If Charlie Smith can compete physically with NZ flankers at his age/weight I'll buy him a case of good Bordeaux en primeur. Don't know the young bloke and wish him well, but there's only so many Michael Hoopers in this world....

 

[Inside Shoulder]

All I know is is that after reading about IS's wine misadventures I felt the obligation to have a 2002 GC with lunch today, not a NZ wine in sight.

Malheureusement I was paying, but in this case happily so.

If Charlie Smith can compete physically with NZ flankers at his age/weight I'll buy him a case of good Bordeaux en primeur. Don't know the young bloke and wish him well, but there's only so many Michael Hoopers in this world..

Without jinxing him he reminds me a bit of Hooper - although (dare I suggest it) his ball playing is a bit more dynamic. Of course I'm basing this on games at the levels below nat champs.
He's fast enough: evidently there's no one quicker under 16 at TSC as he ran the 100 championship in the GPS athletics.