• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Australian test team

Status
Not open for further replies.

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Vale to Matthew Hayden, one of Australia's greatest openers. It was the right time to go, the last year was pretty ordinary by his standards and, surely, his body was giving him big hints with injuries he coudn't shake off. For me the final straw was the dropped catch in the last few overs in Sydney; Hayden would normally snaffle those up in his sleep. He must've known then it was time to go. Well done o good and faithful servant of Australian cricket.

The selectors are now confronted with the task on reinvigorating the test team with a view to building a new empire. Some of their selections since 2005 have been bizarre, trying to shoehorn an all-rounder into the team for one. Trying to replace Warne from a handful of ordinary trundlers for another, admittedly an extremely difficult task. They are also faced with the absence, possibly long-term, of the senior fast bowler, Lee. However, it's not all gloom and doom and there are some encouraging prospects for our test team. The decision to stick with Siddle despite his ordinary debut in the fourth Indian test at Mohali has paid off; this instance of selecting and persevering with a player should be applauded, followed by the obvious question why Krejza wasn't given the same opportunity. His figures of 12 for 358 are the fourth best by a test bowler on debut, to me an indication of some ability. His reckless discarding after getting knocked around on the flat track in Perth is ludicrous; to replace him with the harmless Hauritz, who struggles to get a guernsey for the Blues, is ridiculous. Krejza is a much better prospect than any other spin bowler in Australia at the moment.

There are a couple of test players returning from injury, Jaques and Clark, who should be slotted staight back into the team. The four batsmen after the openers present a problem for the selectors as the balance isn't right with the current fashion for an all-rounder and Hussey's slump in form. Does anyone really think McDonald looks like an Australian test player? Does he have a long term future in the side? I think not. When a similar turmoil in the batting order presented itself some 20 years ago the solution was to move Boon to first drop to accommodate Taylor's debut. I propose something similar with the intended effect of pushing Ponting, Clarke and Hussey one spot down the batting order. Ponting's new spot at 4 echoes Ian Chappell's oscillation up and down the batting order as he aged; I could see him staying at 4 with Clarke moving to 3 in the next few years.

Presuming Jaques and Clark are fit my team for the first test in South Africa is:

Jaques
Rogers
Katich
Ponting
Hussey
Clarke
Haddin
Johnson
Siddle
Clark
Krejza

Those listed from 3 to 6 are all capable of bowling, although Ponting seems to be following the captain's tradition of the last 30 years not to bowl himself. At various times Greg Chappell, Border and Waugh as well as Ponting have proved to be very effective test bowlers, a shame not to see him roll his arm over. Hughes and Hilfenhaus to replace Jaques or Clark if they're not fit. This would also be my squad for the Ashes tour (isn't there a rumour the ACB intend to send a squad of only 13 players?). The desired rejuvination starts with a squad like this with a lot of younger players selected.
 
F

formeropenside

Guest
I'm tempted to see a little more of Hilfenhaus ahead of Bollinger, and I wish Noffke had not been out injured when Clark's elbow blew up, as he is a like for like replacement.

Spin is a worry, but Krejza does bowl too many loose balls to go with all the good ones. I dont know who the answer is if not Krejza, though. Maybe Clarke becomes a "frontliner" and we play 4 quicks. Good luck getting through the overs though, the way Punter is unable to set a field in less than 10 minutes.

Siddle is interesting, in that (as NTA points out) he hits the stumps a lot, similar to Waqar Younis, but does not appear to have a big inswinger (or to swing the ball much at all). He is primarily useful against the tail, or someone out of form a la McKenzie. It troubles me that he is not picking up a fast bowler's traditional dismissals with catches to the keeper and slips. He has a good bouncer though, which is always a good start.

I grant you that Katich has had a great summer, but I hate watching him bat. It's like watching a mudcrab playing golf.
 

Aussie D

Dick Tooth (41)
Has anyone seen much of Stephen Smith? Is he any good? What's happened to Beau Casson? Is Xavier Docherty worth giving a go?
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Interesting thoughts on the re-positioning of the top 3, and then the impact down the order. It has merit for sure. If we went with that I would swap Hussey and Clarke so Huss goes to 6 and Pup to 5. Personally though I'd probably go with Jacques and Katich, with 3, 4 and 5 to stay as Punter, Pup and Huss. Then put someone like David Hussey at 6.

The bowling lineup is somewhat proven, but I still think we need a greater strike bowler and thus somewhat Hilfy to open with Clark. Siddle did well in Sydney, but he still seems a little Dave Gilbert/Matt Nicholson/Greg Campbell to me. Solid bowler, who picks up some wickets at test level, but aint what we are really looking for.

As for your comments about the spinners, am I right in saying the spinners we have used at test level since Warnie has retired are:

- MacGill (NSW)
- Casson (NSW)
- Haurits (NSW)
- Krezja (TAS, but before that NSW)

I don't think Cullen has played since Warnie left? But that's a sad list that (1) means other states aren't producing the goods and (2) our front line spinners (if all from the same team) aren't getting the overs they need to learn their trade.

Aussie D, I reckon Aaron heal and Xavier Doherty are our two best one day spinners. Don't think Xavier, at least, is up to test standard though.

Finally, the other implication of Haydos' retirement is the slips and its time for Punter to move to 1st and Clarke to 2nd. Or perhaps Mike Hussey to 2nd. Moving Punter to slip full time and ditching Roy takes too much from the in-field to probably allow Clarke to move in too. But Dave Hussey is a good fieldsman (despite his two misses last night). Jacques aint a quality fieldsman, so perhaps he goes to short leg, with Kat moving to 2nd slip, allowing Punter to remain on the prowl.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
Noddy, I believe Hauritz started in Qld and then moved south.

I would bring in either Jacques or Hughes for Hayden. Jacques would get the nod if fit. Shaun Marsh isn't in good form and Rogers is at an age (31) where its doubt ful as to whether he is worth a big investment of time. I would also keep Katich at the top of the order.

Will Watson be fit for SA? If so then he would be in for McDonald. Ronald actually did ok in the Sydney test but Watson would have to come in for him if fit. If not, then I think the selectors should look closely at D Hussey for this spot over McDonald. Hussey can roll his arm over if needed.

I have no magic answers re spinners, but I doubt Hauritz or Kreja are the answer. Fortunately they have both proved useful with the bat. If I had to choose one, it would be Hauritz (Kreja goes for just too many runs) but I hope another young spinner (or even Kreja) puts in some decent performances over the next month to make a compeliing case.

My four quicks (including 12 man) would be Johnson, Hilfenhaus, Siddle & Clark (with Siddle likely 12th man). If Clark is unfit then Bollinger in for him. I question whether Clark will regain his old form - he is not young and has hardly played any cricket over the last 12 months but his record in SA is so good that you have to take him if fit.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
mark_s said:
Noddy, I believe Hauritz started in Qld and then moved south.

yeah, he did. Moved south for opportunities. When NSW had MacGill and Krezja on their books and had just signed Casson from Perth as well.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Rogers has been in great form since moving to SA I think this year, but I think age is against him - as is his failings in his chance at the WACA against India. If he was younger, then I don't think his failing would count at all, but at his age I think they would be better trying to develop the 20 year old Hughes or the slightly out of form Marsh. I don't think Rogers will be chosen, well at least, I wouldn't choose him.

Don't agree Jaques is a walk up to the side at all for the SA tour. He needs to back himself into form first, being out for like 6 months(?). It could be 1 - 2 months before he regains form, or it could be immediate. Either way it shouldn't be with the test team. But he should be the guy to replace Hayden, assuming his form returns soon. Jaques may only be about 2 years younger than Rogers, but he's proven at test level - and I think is a better opener anyway.

I'd still like to see Hughes blooded at some stage though...but the kid is what, 20? There's no hurry, especially with Katich being about 33(?) and maybe only having 2 or so years left. 2 years to plunder plenty more domestic runs and oversome second year syndrome.

Brett Lee? I think he's gone and we should be grooming his replacement.

The biggest problem is that we still don't have a front line spinner, and the 4 day decks don't entice enough domestic sides to play full time spinners enough - hence why Hauritz left Queensland, to get away from the Gabba. NSW stockpiling talent doesn't help the cause either.
 
F

formeropenside

Guest
Daniel Doran had a good first season a while back, but has gone backwards from there if anything.

I'd bowl Katich more, myself.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Noddy said:
Interesting thoughts on the re-positioning of the top 3, and then the impact down the order. It has merit for sure. If we went with that I would swap Hussey and Clarke so Huss goes to 6 and Pup to 5. Personally though I'd probably go with Jaques and Katich, with 3, 4 and 5 to stay as Punter, Pup and Huss. Then put someone like David Hussey at 6.

The intention of my suggestion was to try and find a way to get Hussey scoring runs again, but it doesn't really matter if it's at 5 or 6. I suppose I'm being a bit inconsistent calling for Clarke to bat at 3 some time in the future if he's bumped from 5 to 6 before then. No matter. Swap them as you suggest. But I'm firmly in favour of reverting to a traditional Australian batting line-up of six batsmen. If Symonds, Watson or McDonald want another run they have to justify their selection through sheer weight of runs. That's why I prefer Rogers at the moment.

Apart from my thoughts opening this thread there's another thing I'd like to harp on about: the shameful treatment of Brad Hodge. Here's a batsman who scored a double ton against the Saffers four years ago, and was dropped two tests later (his one test since was as a fill-in for an injured player). A sinful waste of talent. It'd be nice to think there was a place somewhere for him in Australian cricket selections if only as a stopgap measure if Hussey needs a rest. It's insightful to recall David Hookes and Darren Lehmann both had significant time out of the test side: Hookes played six tests between March and August 1977, two tests during the next five years and then another 15 between November 1982 and December 1985. Lehmann was first selected for a test in the 1989/90 season (against Pakistan in Sydney) but ended up carrying the drinks. He finally went out to bat in March 1998 and ended up in December 2004 with a total of 27 tests. There's hope for Hodge yet!
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Very good point about Hodge, Lindo. I notice he vented his spleen somewhat the other day and why not. There seems to be a fair bit of intrigue behind the scenes to account for the way some players are decreed to be "not Test material" for some reason. Did Hodge piss someone off? I feel sorry for him. Bracken too is a bit of a mystery. He is one of the most skillful bowlers in the country. With his ability to move it around, I would seriously consider him for England. I'm sure he won't even be considered by the selectors though.
For mine Krezja has to be persisted with - he is the most likely to take wickets. But he needs to get tighter. Hauritz offers nil.
I also think we don't need an all-rounder, unless a really good one appears who qualifies as a batsman alone. And not Watson, unless they find some better Araldite to stick him together.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Lindommer said:
Vale to Matthew Hayden, one of Australia's greatest openers. It was the right time to go, the last year was pretty ordinary by his standards and, surely, his body was giving him big hints with injuries he coudn't shake off. For me the final straw was the dropped catch in the last few overs in Sydney; Hayden would normally snaffle those up in his sleep. He must've known then it was time to go. Well done o good and faithful servant of Australian cricket.
Thought I'd find a thread here dedicated to him. Myself have the world of respect for him as a cricketer and surprised when I first saw him retired.

Anyway look like he also have this for the Protea players and visa versa
Hayden hails SA?s fighting spirit

Recently retired cricketer Matthew Hayden says matches against South Africa have always been the most intense.

The Aussie opener leaves the international arena after a series of bad performances, but South African fans will remember him in his pomp when he was well capable of decimating the best bowling attacks.

On the other side of the coin, Hayden has paid tribute to the Proteas and their never-say-die attitude.

?Some of the most intense games were against them,? he said. ?I still remember the second delivery I had to face in Test cricket in 1994 at the Wanderers. It was one of the quickest bouncers I have ever received. Allan Donald was the bowler. He and Fanie de Villiers were two bowlers for whom I had massive regard.?

Hayden also said the South African performances must be further lauded considering political obstacles such as quotas affected their team dynamic.

?Even so they still managed to field a competitive side and play in much the same manner as we do. For that reason we have so much respect for South African cricket.

?The role Graeme Smith played in forging the team into a formidable unit has not gone unnoticed. Graeme is one of the big names in world cricket and for that I respect him.?
Long may this continue.

Back to topic tho. The three tests in SA will be played at the Wanderers (JoBurg), Kingsmeads (Durban) & Newlands (Cape Town). If I were in SA camp I'll prepare dead wickets. Kingsmead in Durban will be the one for the quickies but Wanderers will be dead with a bit of bounse, Newlands will be much slower. The spinners will be the important team member I geuss. Smith & Mickey Mouse had a big fight with our local groundsman preparing pitches that gave 3 days results and what we call green mambas.
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
I'm not sure what anyone sees in Marsh as a test player. He has a disappointing record for someone who has been around for so long with an average of just on 34 and only 4 centuries. Hughes must have an average of close to 50 and 3 or 4 centuries in a season and half. I think that outlines their respective credentials pretty well.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
Noddy said:
mark_s said:
Noddy, I believe Hauritz started in Qld and then moved south.

yeah, he did. Moved south for opportunities. When NSW had MacGill and Krezja on their books and had just signed Casson from Perth as well.

Maybe Hauritz just likes having an extra hour of daylight at the end of the day.

I think we are all forgetting that its just as hard to get out of the Aus cricket team as it is to get in under the current selection regime. So provided they proove their fitness, then the selectors will pick Jacques, Symonds and Clark. The current selectors don't seem to use form as a criteria if players have previously proven themselves at test level. I also suspect the selectors will use Haydens retirement as an excuse to want to pick experienced players rather than new comers. Not sayingh I agree with this, just guessing what I think will happen.

So I modifiy my team to be:

1. Katich
2. JAcques
3. Ponting
4. Hussey
5. Clarke
6. Symonds
7. Haddin
8. Hauritz
9. Johnson
10. Clark
11. Siddle / Hilfehaus
12. Hiflenhaus/Siddle
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Daniel Doran had a good first season a while back, but has gone backwards from there if anything.

I'd bowl Katich more, myself.

ABC commenatators were saying that during the test series he refused to bowl! They didn't give a reason, but there may have been some injury concern.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
I would be happy to see David Hussey come into the 6 position, especially with his spin bowling ability. I would pick Jaques if he proves himself in the 4 day game, otherwise opt for the young fella, and hope he is in the test team for the next 15 years.

As far as the bowling attack is concerned, I think if Clark is fit then he is an automatic selection (I think we would have won in Perth with him in the side). With Clark in the side and Johnson bowling accurately as well, we may be able to afford to bring Krezja back. The most attacking bowling line-up would be:

Johnson - left arm fast
Clark - right arm medium fast seam
Hilfenhaus - right arm medium fast swing
Krezja - right arm off spin

That is the most balanced and attacking bowling line-up. IMO out of any Australian bowlers around at the moment, Hilfenhaus is the one that has the most potential to become a great. He is also younger than the rest, and it is past time he was brought into the test side.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Scotty said:
I would be happy to see David Hussey come into the 6 position, especially with his spin bowling ability. I would pick Jaques if he proves himself in the 4 day game, otherwise opt for the young fella, and hope he is in the test team for the next 15 years.

Agree Scotty. Am a big fan of David Hussey, and would have him at 6 with Jaques at the top of the order with Katich. He is all class, and his bowling is good to have as well.
 
T

Turban

Guest
Cutter said:
I'm not sure what anyone sees in Marsh as a test player. He has a disappointing record for someone who has been around for so long with an average of just on 34 and only 4 centuries. Hughes must have an average of close to 50 and 3 or 4 centuries in a season and half. I think that outlines their respective credentials pretty well.

His ODI record is not looking too shabby at the moment thou. He must be on 5/6 half centuries in his first 10 matches. You can't ask more than that from a 25yr old opener without being unreasonable. Test match, he's looking a bit further down the pecking order but it's obvious he's been ear-marked for the future since he was a young-un.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Sounds like is brother has been earmarked since he was even younger.

I guess it stands that they are very good cricketers, they have every advantage - good genes, lots of exposure to the game, mental fortitude and a father who is a very good coach.
 
T

Turban

Guest
Scotty said:
Sounds like is brother has been earmarked since he was even younger.

I guess it stands that they are very good cricketers, they have every advantage - good genes, lots of exposure to the game, mental fortitude and a father who is a very good coach.

From what I've heard his brother is looking more like a AFL prospect than a cricket one. Hopefully he can resist the temptation to play in such glorious venues as Adeladie or Geelong and accepts that as a cricketeer he will be limited to the likes of the SCG and Barbados.

Shaun was earmarked a long time ago, his brother is only in the papers because of Shauns success. I belive both the boys have been on tour with Australia already too! ;)
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
So Jacques is out for 9 and Symonds for 5 in their respective SS matches, both will have one more chance to get runs. Hughes is approaching 50 and must be ahead of Jacques at this stage.

To be fair, it seems that Qld are batting on a green top so they may give Symonds the benefit of the doubt.

Oh and Rogers is out for 20 odd in the Vic game.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top