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Brumbies 2016

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USARugger

John Thornett (49)
what position does Pocock play for the Wallabies again?


**My earlier comments were based on Slim's unedited post where he seemed to forget about LFG. Irrelevant now that Liam is going away though.

Pocock wears 8 only because he's an absolute freak and had to be shoehorned into the squad without dropping Hooper, one of the Wallabies best players for the last few years. A pretty severe lack of quality options at 8 during the same period made this the only real option Cheika or the Wallabies had.

Double 7's was a structure that was adopted because of Pocock and there's been plenty of on-field evidence with Cheika as coach that it won't be played without Pocock on the field.

Last year Butler generally came off the bench to cover for Vaea and the majority (if not all) of his time wearing 7 was due to squad injuries. Even then, Fardy was the go-to man for a lot of the on the ball work you'd expect your fetcher/spoiler to be getting through.

It's interesting that Cheika brought him to the Barbarians because there's still an enormous gulf in the 8 jersey for the Wallabies right now (Pocock was always a possibility to take an overseas option after the RWC and has a good history of major injury at this point in his career).

He's not in line behind McMahon/Hooper or any of the other 6s-cum-7 going around Australian rugby - he's a potential candidate to butt heads with whoever else Cheika has in mind to wear the Wallabies 8 jersey after David (and not in the way David has, but as a "traditional" 8).

He had pretty limited minutes when the Brumbie's starting back row were all fit so maybe Cheika just wanted to see a bit more of him - what better way to do it than in person. Not a bad move considering that outside of Vaea there wasn't really anyone putting their hand up. Vaea is also going to be 31+ by the next RWC, having his own past issues with fitness in more than one way.

But thanks Reg, I'd almost forgotten what jersey Pocock was wearing the entire RWC.
 

RebelYell

Arch Winning (36)
Swap around Fainga'a and Butler and that's fairly accurate...

Fainga'a has yet to make an impact at Super Rugby level, and is marginally ahead of the last two names there....

I think Hodgson needs a big improvement this year to be considered 'top five.'

Colby has yet to make an impact at Super Rugby level? Won the Rebels' Players' Player in 2014, same year Butler won the Brumbies award?
 

topgun

Billy Sheehan (19)
Swap around Fainga'a and Butler and that's fairly accurate...

Fainga'a has yet to make an impact at Super Rugby level, and is marginally ahead of the last two names there....

I think Hodgson needs a big improvement this year to be considered 'top five.'

Hodgson is a bloody tough footballer, he's not flashy like hooper or Gill but in my books (at least on past form) he was on par with Gill (similarly) in a losing side.

Reid is another really talented openside who really surprised me for the rebs last year when they were thin on the ground. I really believe he'll wear the gold yet.
I just don't see the class in Butler's game that you guys obviously do. He doesn't do anything wrong for me, he's just a character similar to Sam Wykes, does the job but won't really make it at internationals. It's up to him to prove otherwise and I wouldn't be unhappy if he did. Shame he's a dirty kiwi to boot.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Colby has yet to make an impact at Super Rugby level? Won the Rebels' Players' Player in 2014, same year Butler won the Brumbies award?



The same year the Brumbies reached the semi finals and the Rebels finished dead last?

That year?
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I just don't see the class in Butler's game that the Wallabies coach obviously does.


Fixed............ ;)

Anyways, my original point (before the thread got hijacked) was that unless the Brumbies can get George Smith again for a year, there's really no need to sign a direct replacement for Pocock because a) they're not going to get somebody of worth on a one year fill-in contract, and b) they already have the best uncapped openside in the country................
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
what position does Pocock play for the Wallabies again?

While Poey played 8 for the Wallabies, Reg, he won't be playing 8 for the Brumbies. Vaea will hold down the No 8 spot, and on his performance against the Tahs last week, he is every bit as good and strong as he was last year. IMO he is very likely to fill the Wallabies No8 spot if either Hooper or Pocock are missing.

The issue atm is who plays 7 for the Brumbies if Poey gets injured or moves off shore? I like Butler as a backup No 8, but not as a 7. Maybe George will return next year?
 

Highlander35

Steve Williams (59)
Brumbies thread is the wrong place. But I like Butler. He's a Super quality 7, and his size, nice hands and lineout ability make him a good option at 6 and 8 as well. But I like Colby as an out and out openside more. Plenty of tackles, plenty of turnovers or turnover opportunities, quality link play on attack. I'd like him in the canary before Jarrad.
 

RebelYell

Arch Winning (36)
The same year the Brumbies reached the semi finals and the Rebels finished dead last?

That year?

So because his team didn't play finals, his award as the best player at his team means less?

By that rationale, Sean McMahon is not as good a player as Ita Vaea?
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Sean might be the better player, but Ita offers more to the team as he plays in a position that he specialises in, while Sean has to play where there is a vacant spot, and he's really too small for 6 or 8 (though he does play larger than he is), and he's not an out and out fetcher like Pocock, Gill or Smith in the No 7 spot.
 

RebelYell

Arch Winning (36)
Sean might be the better player, but Ita offers more to the team as he plays in a position that he specialises in, while Sean has to play where there is a vacant spot, and he's really too small for 6 or 8 (though he does play larger than he is), and he's not an out and out fetcher like Pocock, Gill or Smith in the No 7 spot.


Ita Vaea offers more to a team, such as the Wallabies, than Sean McMahon? This board would be the only place where you'd not be laughed off based on this concept, I'd suggest....
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Can we compare Jordan Smiler and Luke Jones next? Or how about Jordy Reid vs Michael Wells?

This has been terrific and I'm sure everyone is enjoying reading it.
 
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Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Ita Vaea offers more to a team, such as the Wallabies, than Sean McMahon? This board would be the only place where you'd not be laughed off based on this concept, I'd suggest..

My comment was made in the context of playing for the Brumbies and the Rebels. I do believe Vaea is more valuable to the Brumbies than Sean is to the Rebels, and I am more sure that Ita would offer more as a No 8 to the Rebels than Sean would as a No 6, 7 or 8 to the Brumbies. I have not said anywhere that either of them is not very good player and I can accept an argument that Sean is possibly a more talented footballer than Ita. I am just expressing my opinion about what each offers to his team at this point in time.
 

Forcefield

Ken Catchpole (46)
I agree with BR. I am a huge Ita Vaea fan. He is clearly an 8 and he does it really well. What exactly is Sean McMahon? I think Vaea has the potential to be our best number 8 (I would move Hooper to the bench and Pocock back to 7). I am not entirely sure what McMahon would be.
 

RebelYell

Arch Winning (36)
Sean McMahon has something that's been sorely lacking in Australian Rugby for years... A fair bit of c**t in him. He loves the physicality of the contest and will never shirk a challenge. That's what sets him apart from the likes of Butler, and what saw him in front of Gill at the RWC, as Cheika himself as a player was much the same.

We continually get told that McMahon is not a 6, not a 7, not an 8, due to the deficiencies in his game or his physical size, yet he was MOTM for the Wallabies in starts against the USA and Uruguay and was selected in the RWC squad despite not featuring in TRC. Suggests those who know a lot more than us know a lot more than us...
 
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