CAS Rugby 2012

[pigprop]

I think it's slightly more complicated than that.



Footnote: As Barker defended its line in the second half today, one of the Barker forwards yelled repeatedly and loudly: "Come on, let's f%&k these c^%#s up!" Am I just getting old, or is this a bit too unpleasant for schoolboy Rugby?

Any idea which Barker Forward ? ;]

 

[I like to watch]

snort, so you are saying that Trinity has a heap of great players. It's just most of them are no good in the position they are required to play?
What you have described a team with very little upside with many limitations.
A variety of styles would cause them no end of trouble.
From what you have described, their poor results thus far would seem to be in line with their ability as a unit.

 

[Casnovian]

Given that backs go nowhere without a dominant forward platform it's hard to believe that a pack consisting of Morsello, Satiu, McLean, Afele, Orr, etc has not delivered that platform or is it that Trinity's 2012 backs lack the talent to take advantage of what's been delivered to them?

You got that in one CTPE!

Snort adds some insight into one of the reasons the ball doesn't get played out wide.

I would add there are a number of individual backs - who choose to stay individuals on the paddock (Must be sending the coaches around the bend - as insanity continues to reign in this aspect (Einstein said something about doing things the same way and it being insane to expect them to change).

Could not believe the choices to kick so much today and the attempted long passes -- on a "wet weather day" - please under 12s know not to do this. Could have been much closer today, only if. Two tries out wide to Barker - Trinity's now well known vunerability.

Some of the Barker forwards "bit off more than they could chew" today and would no doubt thinking twice about that tonight and tomorrow morning.

Predict at least five of the Trinity forwards in tomorrow nights CAS team - none them shamed themselves.

Credit goes to Barker who have played consistently all year - therefore the results. Can't dispute that!

 

[rtd32]

Turns out that the stats don't lie. See a few posts above - if you went on the Barker and Trinity defence stats you'd have expected Trinity to allow 26 points and Barker to give away 11 - so 25-15 isn't far off.

I only saw the last half hour or so (it was 15-5 when I got there). Trinity had to play catch-up and couldn't in the wet conditions. Barker's better control in the forwards seemed to be the difference, with the big 5 going over from close range. Trinity's go-to move (Whicker's inside ball to Malaki) brought Trinity back within range but the result was fair and should seal the premiership for Barker.

CAS tips? It was too wet and dark to tell much. The Barker centres were strong and should be in contention; the fly-half was very quiet and gave away a silly penalty when he ran behind a decoy runner. For Trinity, Clunies-Ross got through the game and made one great run while I was there. I'd have him in the team. But there will be lots of blue and red socks around him.

Harry Jenkins was the man who made that run, not smerdon.. probably the first time i've seen him run the ball all season. i cant argue with what your saying though, but I still wouldnt rule a trinity or waverly win out yet, we have a round to go with 5 more games where anything can happen. Clunies-Ross was on exceptional form after his injury and he definitely deserves that 15 jersey for CAS.. However, there was a performance from the young tyson davis that must be accredited, as it seems i have underestimated his ability and would not be surprised to see a 15 on his back for CAS 2s, or even a 14/11 in the 1's, truly an outstanding performance today. As for your comment on players behaviour, it seems that you have failed to mention young mr clarkes little tantrum which was a far worse display of conduct than swearing (perhaps the language was in retaliation to this?), but at the end of the day its a bunch of teenagers playing a physical game, and this sort of thing is likely to go on. I think this can be forgiven snort as we were all the same at some stage in our lives

 

[rtd32]

Maybe they're just not as good as they or others think. The form from the St Pat's trial has stuck and not improved.

trinity played the best rugby I've seen from them all season. They came out hard from the start, nearly scoring a try in the first 2 minutes, only to be denied by exceptional defence. They had, and made their opportunities, but barkers defence just proved to be too good, and it was undoubtedly frustrating for the trinity who were used to racking up big scorelines. Wet conditions definitely didnt suit their style of play either, but unfortunately there was nothing that could change this for them. I think we'll see a far stronger trinity side in the back half of this season.

Barker had outstanding performances from Flaherty again, not often do you see an outside back making much of an impact in a wet weather fixture, and at one stage he managed to pull off an amazing kick under pressure to curve into touch (whether this was intentional or luck of the bounce i do not know, but it was quite impressive none the less). Also, as i previously mentioned, young tyson davis proving his potential, coping well with the pressures of the high ball and making many breaks, even taking on a playmaker role at some points with a well placed grubber behind the trinity defence to come to a halt right in the corner. Mr Pearson, number 7 would have been my man of the match, whilst he dropped i think i counted 3 balls, it is forgivable in this weather. Heavy presence at the breakdown, and made some excellent runs up the middle of the field, putting much bigger opponents on the back foot, a likely contender for CAS 2s.

Jamo Clarke had a great kicking game, and it is obvious as to why he defends at fullback. He scored a good try off some solid build up play from his forwards. Clunies-Ross, wow, what a player. I would love to see him play having not just returned from injury, he is just great to watch and always looked a threat. There were so many occasions where i thought he was well and truly covered in defence, but he proved me wrong on most occasions. Not many standouts from the forward pack with Orr being his usual strong presence at the breakdown, but I must agree with snort, these boys lost alot of ball (or didn't capitalise on what could have been easy turnover ball) because they were simply too slow to the breakdown.

note: snort, if your reading this, it turns out Tom O'farell did end up playing in the firsts just not as 5/8, also I'd be interested to see what you thought of the smerdon v clarke matchup?

 

[Casnovian]

I think it's slightly more complicated than that.

Mae, who was just about the only player from last year's Trinity team not to play CAS, would be a godsend to this side, because of his speed to the breakdown.

&

Footnote: As Barker defended its line in the second half today, one of the Barker forwards yelled repeatedly and loudly: "Come on, let's f%&k these c^%#s up!" Am I just getting old, or is this a bit too unpleasant for schoolboy Rugby?

For the record - Mae was selected for CAS side last year - however had competing priorities and true to his character made a difficult decision - chose what was best for him - which adds some perspective - generally.

By all accounts is doing well in his chosen direction. And yes that organisation has a rugby team!

Wonder if Footnote refers to the Barker forward seeing double and had great trouble standing up nearing the end of the game?

 

[Snort]

note: snort, if your reading this, it turns out Tom O'farell did end up playing in the firsts just not as 5/8, also I'd be interested to see what you thought of the smerdon v clarke matchup?

Well, I'm happy for O'Farrell but still prepared to bet he won't be in the CAS 1sts 10 jersey any time soon.

As for Clark and Smerdon, I really didn't see enough of the game to tell. And when I was there, it really was too dark to see who was who much of the time. I did notice that Barker's fly-half had the only clean jumper left on the field, but whether that's because he was a replacement or because he never challenged the line I couldn't say. While I was there the Barker 10 was tidy but pretty anonymous. I'd be very surprised if Clark isn't in the 10 jumper for CAS.

And in a sense there was never a match-up, since Clark often defended at full-back and Smerdon on the wing. No criticism of either player is intended here, but they didn't mark each other as once may have been the case.

I'm a big admirer of Clark's play but occasionally when things aren't going well for his side, he could do a better job of concealing his disappointment.

 

[Newbie]

This years' CAS selections are now up for grabs IMO, moreso given the poor form of Trinity. Some will inevitabley disagree with me here but reputation and status goes a long way in rugby and selectors are not as 'Fickle' some might believe.

Nevertheless the 'CAS U/16 Class of 2011' for mine was lacklustre and a certain few of those lads are not playing up to their full potential! When I say 'full potential', I could also be wrong as it may be the case that some late bloomers are coming through (as it always the case) and are knocking the established players of their mantles.

I won't share the name but last year I overheard a junior rugby coach state something to his charges that is almost a cliche, yet still very profound; "boys you have to work very hard to be the best, but even harder to remain the best"!

 

[rtd32]

Well, I'm happy for O'Farrell but still prepared to bet he won't be in the CAS 1sts 10 jersey any time soon.

As for Clark and Smerdon, I really didn't see enough of the game to tell. And when I was there, it really was too dark to see who was who much of the time. I did notice that Barker's fly-half had the only clean jumper left on the field, but whether that's because he was a replacement or because he never challenged the line I couldn't say. While I was there the Barker 10 was tidy but pretty anonymous. I'd be very surprised if Clark isn't in the 10 jumper for CAS.

And in a sense there was never a match-up, since Clark often defended at full-back and Smerdon on the wing. No criticism of either player is intended here, but they didn't mark each other as once may have been the case.

I'm a big admirer of Clark's play but occasionally when things aren't going well for his side, he could do a better job of concealing his disappointment.

this is true about their lack of 'physical' matchup in the sense they actually were opposing each other in attack and defence, but i meant more on performance.. Yes well smerdon is in year 10 so he wont be contesting clarke for that spot anyway, but I would agree that Clarke's experience showed over the younger smerdon.. I also made the same observation of smerdon's jersey but i found it strange seeing as he actually had run the ball a fair bit earlier in the game (I believe he scored a try).. perhaps it was because he didn't have to defend much at the wing

 

[pigprop]

but I would agree that Clarke's experience showed over the younger smerdon.. I also made the same observation of smerdon's jersey but i found it strange seeing as he actually had run the ball a fair bit earlier in the game (I believe he scored a try).. perhaps it was because he didn't have to defend much at the wing

He didn't score a try
the try scorers were davis, stolz and wilson

 

[alpha]

trinity played the best rugby I've seen from them all season. They came out hard from the start, nearly scoring a try in the first 2 minutes, only to be denied by exceptional defence. They had, and made their opportunities, but barkers defence just proved to be too good, and it was undoubtedly frustrating for the trinity who were used to racking up big scorelines. Wet conditions definitely didnt suit their style of play either, but unfortunately there was nothing that could change this for them. I think we'll see a far stronger trinity side in the back half of this season.

Barker had outstanding performances from Flaherty again, not often do you see an outside back making much of an impact in a wet weather fixture, and at one stage he managed to pull off an amazing kick under pressure to curve into touch (whether this was intentional or luck of the bounce i do not know, but it was quite impressive none the less). Also, as i previously mentioned, young tyson davis proving his potential, coping well with the pressures of the high ball and making many breaks, even taking on a playmaker role at some points with a well placed grubber behind the trinity defence to come to a halt right in the corner. Mr Pearson, number 7 would have been my man of the match, whilst he dropped i think i counted 3 balls, it is forgivable in this weather. Heavy presence at the breakdown, and made some excellent runs up the middle of the field, putting much bigger opponents on the back foot, a likely contender for CAS 2s.

Jamo Clarke had a great kicking game, and it is obvious as to why he defends at fullback. He scored a good try off some solid build up play from his forwards. Clunies-Ross, wow, what a player. I would love to see him play having not just returned from injury, he is just great to watch and always looked a threat. There were so many occasions where i thought he was well and truly covered in defence, but he proved me wrong on most occasions. Not many standouts from the forward pack with Orr being his usual strong presence at the breakdown, but I must agree with snort, these boys lost alot of ball (or didn't capitalise on what could have been easy turnover ball) because they were simply too slow to the breakdown.

note: snort, if your reading this, it turns out Tom O'farell did end up playing in the firsts just not as 5/8, also I'd be interested to see what you thought of the smerdon v clarke matchup?

Pearson in #6; #7 is Burkett (Year 10)

 

[alpha]

Trinity forwards dominant for 1st 10 minutes but Barker held them out and then gained the ascendancy. Thereafter Trinity slow to the breakdown. Much vaunted T front row did not measure up. Edney was extremely gutsy till went off with concussion. Replaced by O'Farrell who did well against much bigger opponent. Wilson outplayed Morsello. Counted 5 times that Trinity number 1 joined the breakdown with swinging right arm.

Stoltz try was from a good run and pass by Tyson Davis - first time many of have seen Davis pass the ball!!!!

Barker forwards have been incredible this year, especially numbers 2, 4, 6 and 7. Speed of play and presence at the breakdown have been key.

 

[no9]

I think it's slightly more complicated than that.

Essentially the Trinity pack has half a dozen very gifted props. Only two can play there, so McLean and Malaki play second row, Morsello at hooker and Ola at No8. That's maybe a little harsh on Malaki and Ola, but neither has quite the mobility you'd ideally want in a back-row forward. This leads to two problems: a lack of genuine lineout strength (and that's putting it kindly) and a lack of presence at the breakdown - Trinity just doesn't get the numbers there, and doesn't have a genuine open-side flier. The result is that continuity of possession is hard to come by.

So, you have a forward pack full of gifted individuals who don't quite add up to a formidable pack because they don't have the ability to monopolise possession. The players I mentioned are all excellent footballers, in my view. If you had a genuine lineout jumper (Harb is OK, and works hard, but no-one fears him) and a genuine open-side (hurst is a whole-hearter player, but doesn't dominate) it might just work. Mae, who was just about the only player from last year's Trinity team not to play CAS, would be a godsend to this side, because of his speed to the breakdown.

The backs? Well, to be fair, they don't get much good ball. There's a problem at scrum-half. Whicker played another really good game today: he's industrious, defends, tidies up loose ball and runs strongly and bravely. But the one skill he really needs - the ability to send the ball to the spot where his fly-half can run onto it without breaking stride - just eludes him. A lot of Trinity's backline moves falter because they start with Clark hauling in a pass from over his head. I know I bang on about this, and I take no pleasure in criticising a gutsy and talented player, but I think he may be a fantastic footballer who happens not to be very well suited to the position he plays (I thought this about George Gregan, too, so I guess he's in good company).

Clark I think has done a good job under the circumstances. He has a heap of skill, kicks well, and has defended bravely and effectively this year. But outside him there's a revolving door of players. Mostly because of injuries, Trinity has not fielded the same back line two games running (and that's in eight or nine games). Finn has talent to burn, but dies a lot with the ball. Roberts has heaps of pace but never gets the ball in space. Clunies-Ross is brilliant, but has played only one of five competition games. Early in the year, Trinity worked up a heap of moves that involved Clark bringing Clunies-Ross into the line, or occasionally using him as a decoy and releasing Finn. There hasn't really been much opportunity to use those moves.

That's my take on it anyway. I don't think it's a reflection on the personalities, or big heads, or lack of desire. I just think it's that the mix is missing a couple of important ingredients. Barker, in contrast, seem to lack the explosive individual talents that Trinity has, but have great balance and discipline and really solid basics. They will not run up fifty points against anyone this year. But quite possibly no-one will put twenty on them either.

Footnote: As Barker defended its line in the second half today, one of the Barker forwards yelled repeatedly and loudly: "Come on, let's f%&k these c^%#s up!" Am I just getting old, or is this a bit too unpleasant for schoolboy Rugby?

No offence but you have confirmed my original thoughts. The 9 can't pass, hard workers who no-one fears, whole hearted but doesn't dominate, 6 props in the pack, poor lineout, selfish backs, excuses for an imbalanced and poor team. Stepping up to opens is a large shift in attitude and while there may be some individuals who can play to a higher level each week many in this team can't therefore the over rated tag.

 

[Snort]

No offence but you have confirmed my original thoughts. The 9 can't pass, hard workers who no-one fears, whole hearted but doesn't dominate, 6 props in the pack, poor lineout, selfish backs, excuses for an imbalanced and poor team. Stepping up to opens is a large shift in attitude and while there may be some individuals who can play to a higher level each week many in this team can't therefore the over rated tag.

Well, I wasn't "making excuses" for anyone. Nor did I over-rate this team, since I have always thought there are question marks over it. And yes, it's imbalanced for the reasons I gave. But, please - a "poor team"? It's likely they'll finish second. Does that mean every team except the winner is "poor"?

Plus, I'm not sure it's about "stepping up" or attitude. You can't tell a prop to be a second rower or a flanker and expect them to be outstanding in that role. It's schoolboy Rugby, which means you have to make the best of your resources and get your best players on the field one way or another. Sometimes that involves compromises. Not many schools are gifted with top-class players in every position.

 

[rtd32]

Pearson in #6; #7 is Burkett (Year 10)

my apologies, my friend and i got a few names and numbers wrong.. For davis's try we were tossing up whether it was number 10 or 15 on his back, and saw the number 10 emerge from the crowd of celebrating boys, and therefore assumed he was the try scorer.. As for my comments on pearson, i did by all means get the right name, not the right number (6) sorry people!

 

[Snort]

For Barker, I thought Wilson was excellent yesterday, and removed any doubt that he will start in CAS 1sts.

 

[It is what it is]

Essentially the Trinity pack has half a dozen very gifted props.

The Wallabies don't have half a dozen very gifted props....is this where they've all been hiding, at Trinity?

 

[Snort]

One last observation from yesterday - walking around the ground I heard one Barker teacher/parent/supporter yelling to no-one in particular, "Why do you always let him run so far?!" He was talking (well, yelling) about Clunies-Ross. I guess if you've never had to tackle him it's easy to underestimate how difficult a task that is.

 

[Snort]

Very droll.

 

[rtd32]

One last observation from yesterday - walking around the ground I heard one Barker teacher/parent/supporter yelling to no-one in particular, "Why do you always let him run so far?!" He was talking (well, yelling) about Clunies-Ross. I guess if you've never had to tackle him it's easy to underestimate how difficult a task that is.

theres no doubt clunies-ross should have that CAS 15, Patterson will be on the wing, along with either davis or that Cranbrook boy, has anyone else heard or seen any more of him since the Cranbrook v Barker game?