CAS Rugby 2014

[rtd32]

They don't need or expect to score a try with ever touch of the ball.
Positional play is tactical.

I should add, apologies, that was poorly written.

Yes I understand your point now, thank you for clarifying.

 

[Ruddigar Jones]

God Cranbrook seems to be getting a good wrap here. I mean, their First XV is very strong, but this team won the U16A comp so its kind of to be expected. If you were all actually commenting on the development of the schools rugby, you might take note of the fact that their current 16s have a good crop of players but are absolutely woeful, havent won a match. Similarly, their 14s/15s sides have been on the losing end of 80-0 + results. I don't mean to knock them, because they have produced a fine First XV outfit this year, but its a stretch to say that the school is anywhere near consistently strong like a school such as Knox.

 

[rtd32]

Exactly what Cranbrook rugby club has done across all years and all grades for 5 years approx(except 1st XV coach has been and is still is a teacher always)
Outside expertise is very much part time and is used across all grades and age groups with the aim of improving standards steadily for all boys who choose rugby
Seems to be a fairer, more worthwhile and longer term approach to allocating limited redources than that which cannot be mentioned - it's certainly within the spirit of schoolboy footy!

I say again, not to take anything away from this years side, but before we go blowing the trumpet of Cranbrook's rugby program can I get some info on how well their younger grades are doing? How are they doing in lower opens grades as well? ie 2s, 3s, 4s?... I can say one thing about CAS rugby, and that is that IF I were a gambling man (I am not for very good reason), I would place a ridiculous amount of money on Knox or Barker taking out the 2's and 3's competition without even considering the stats and that is simply because they train for depth and accommodate for the younger/lower teams (I highlight the word depth here to point out why these schools are consistently competitive - the 13A's is usually a totally different team to the 1st XV the 5 years following because they look at all players development across the board. This also means that there are many players in the 2nds that are more than capable to play in the 1sts if they are needed).

Again, I make the point that I can't remember Cranbrook coming remotely close to winning the premiership since the last time they won in 1994! That is 20 years ago people. And yet I'm seeing all this talk of successful 'long term rugby program building', well one part of that is true - it certainly has been a very long term. If Cranbrook does manage to win this year, which they have every chance of doing, then I commend them their efforts and congratulate a good side that has undoubtedly been shaped by sound coaching, but I'd be very intrigued to see if they come in the top 3, even 4, next year. Maybe they'll win again next year, who knows? but all I'm seeing is everyone bagging Waverley's rugby program and absolutely flogging cranbrook's success like a salesman! And yet, let's look back at Waverley from 2007 - premiership, 3rd, premiership, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd. So what? they're not having a great year - in 2009 Barker only managed to win 1 game and finished at the bottom of the table (and trust me, even that win was pretty flukey). Before that they had some pretty mediocre years - finishing 3rd, and yet you're all praising their 'long term investment' program. Knox has had some pretty mediocre years recently also - what is it? 3rd or 4th for 4 years running?

If anything, Waverley has been the most consistent school of recent years and of this whole competition since they joined it. This year is what I suspect to be a statistical outlier - perhaps it is the dawn of a new era (but I imagine it will be a short lived one). All I can say is that what that school has been doing has been consistently working over the years, beating Barker, Knox, and Cranbrook on many occasions. I can only hope, for the sake of the rest of the competition, that they don't look to improve their program at all.

I'll leave with the confession that I genuinely can not remember the last time Waverley finished last in CAS.

 

[rtd32]

God Cranbrook seems to be getting a good wrap here. I mean, their First XV is very strong, but this team won the U16A comp so its kind of to be expected. If you were all actually commenting on the development of the schools rugby, you might take note of the fact that their current 16s have a good crop of players but are absolutely woeful, havent won a match. Similarly, their 14s/15s sides have been on the losing end of 80-0 + results. I don't mean to knock them, because they have produced a fine First XV outfit this year, but its a stretch to say that the school is anywhere near consistently strong like a school such as Knox.

snuck that one in before me

 

[sidelineview]

Check these results out: Waverley vs Cranbrook a couple of weeks ago; it gets things into perspective a bit and points out that Waverley is in a 'development phase' re their 1sts. NB: 3 x U16s played in their 1sts last week. Even though Waverley 1sts will do it tough for the remainder of the season they won't give up.
But ..... things are looking OK for the future.

.........W vs C
1sts 3 - 41
2nds 10 - 12
3rds 12 - 17
16A 21 - 15
16B 33 - 0
15A 31 - 27
15B 60 - 0
14A 54 - 0
14B 28 - 0
13A 26 - 17
13B 40 - 0
13C 87 - 0

 

[jbarnes43]

The Waverley rugby i have watched so far this season as a sport enthusiast has left me startled and disgusted at the least, the lack of structure, speed and execution has left me pondering whether i have been watching the wrong game, I never knew the 5th XV kicked off at 3:15. Apparently their soccer budget stands remarkably higher than their rugby counterparts, I have nothing against that as Waverley 1st XI are playing very well from what i have seen and heard, but surely with results like Waverley's 1st XV there needs to be an increase in their budget (no tony abbot reference intended) or we will be seeing the boys kicking the sphere become the men charging out to the sound of drums from the pavilion.

 

[sidelineview]

The Waverley rugby i have watched so far this season as a sport enthusiast has left me startled and disgusted at the least, the lack of structure, speed and execution has left me pondering whether i have been watching the wrong game, I never knew the 5th XV kicked off at 3:15. Apparently their soccer budget stands remarkably higher than their rugby counterparts, I have nothing against that as Waverley 1st XI are playing very well from what i have seen and heard, but surely with results like Waverley's 1st XV there needs to be an increase in their budget (no tony abbot reference intended) or we will be seeing the boys kicking the sphere become the men charging out to the sound of drums from the pavilion.

Read the post above this. '5th XV? really?

 

[waerea has graves]

The Waverley rugby i have watched so far this season as a sport enthusiast has left me startled and disgusted at the least, the lack of structure, speed and execution has left me pondering whether i have been watching the wrong game, I never knew the 5th XV kicked off at 3:15. Apparently their soccer budget stands remarkably higher than their rugby counterparts, I have nothing against that as Waverley 1st XI are playing very well from what i have seen and heard, but surely with results like Waverley's 1st XV there needs to be an increase in their budget (no tony abbot reference intended) or we will be seeing the boys kicking the sphere become the men charging out to the sound of drums from the pavilion.

At Waverley the kids are taught to play a loose and unstructured game. Their lack of structure is something they pride themselves on and is seen as a differentiation between the other cas schools. In regards to soccer taking over waverley this will (hopefully) never happen because the game is the seen as something played by pansies

 

[Ruddigar Jones]

At Waverley the kids are taught to play a loose and unstructured game. Their lack of structure is something they pride themselves on and is seen as a differentiation between the other cas schools. In regards to soccer taking over waverley this will (hopefully) never happen because the game is the seen as something played by pansies

Both these statements are ludicrous.

 

[Snort]

Can I make a modest proposal which might bring some sense to some of the discussion here? If you want to argue that Rugby is booming at a particular school (say, Cranbrook) or in horrible decline at another (say, Waverley), please do so by reference to at least a three-year time span and with an eye on the results at junior level as well as the 1st XV. It happens that this year, Cranbrook has an excellent group of players, and Waverley a relatively weak one. That just happens sometimes. Neither fact, in itself, is evidence of anything much.

Take Barker. I doubt that they are doing much this year that's all that different from the last two years (two premierships, 19 wins from 20 matches). This year's crop just isn't quite up to the standard of last year's. Now, if Barker don't win for another five years, then, sure, ask what went wrong. But one season is too small a sample size to mean anything at all about the general health of any school's Rugby programme.

 

[sidelineview]

Both these statements are ludicrous.

Absolutely ... soccer is a highly skilled game ... and take a look at the Waverley 13s teams to see this 'unstructured' style of rugby. An ex Wallaby is looking after the 13s and they are playing sensational and structured rugby.

 

[sidelineview]

Can I make a modest proposal which might bring some sense to some of the discussion here? If you want to argue that Rugby is booming at a particular school (say, Cranbrook) or in horrible decline at another (say, Waverley), please do so by reference to at least a three-year time span and with an eye on the results at junior level as well as the 1st XV. It happens that this year, Cranbrook has an excellent group of players, and Waverley a relatively weak one. That just happens sometimes. Neither fact, in itself, is evidence of anything much.

Take Barker. I doubt that they are doing much this year that's all that different from the last two years (two premierships, 19 wins from 20 matches). This year's crop just isn't quite up to the standard of last year's. Now, if Barker don't win for another five years, then, sure, ask what went wrong. But one season is too small a sample size to mean anything at all about the general health of any school's Rugby programme.

Right on the money Snort ..

 

[smokinjoe]

Might also have something to do with relative numbers of pupils in year 11 and 12
Aloys Cranbrook at the lower end of numbers and Knox and barker at the other end

 

[BRUMBIEJACK]

Can I make a modest proposal which might bring some sense to some of the discussion here? If you want to argue that Rugby is booming at a particular school (say, Cranbrook) or in horrible decline at another (say, Waverley), please do so by reference to at least a three-year time span and with an eye on the results at junior level as well as the 1st XV. It happens that this year, Cranbrook has an excellent group of players, and Waverley a relatively weak one. That just happens sometimes. Neither fact, in itself, is evidence of anything much.

Take Barker. I doubt that they are doing much this year that's all that different from the last two years (two premierships, 19 wins from 20 matches). This year's crop just isn't quite up to the standard of last year's. Now, if Barker don't win for another five years, then, sure, ask what went wrong. But one season is too small a sample size to mean anything at all about the general health of any school's Rugby programme.

Very much agree. A program is about much more than the firsts, and it should focus on encouraging participation as much as it does skills development. I would also add that schools are where most of tomorrow's rugby players come from and if the numbers drop here then it is the canary in the coal mine for rugby as a sport. From a Waverley perspective the numbers are very healthy in the junior years (more than half Year 7 playing for example) which is encouraging. But there must be concerns when a school as big as Barker can only field four teams in the 13s - hopefully it's just an aberration but as it stands currently only Knox and Waverley match up in terms of teams in the junior years. That can't be good for the health of the sport. Given Knox's intakes are 50% bigger than Waverley's I would welcome any suggestions as to why numbers in the other schools with similar student intakes to Waverley's (or larger in the case of Barker) seem to be struggling for numbers - or has it ever been thus since the introduction of soccer ? I've no great solutions from a Waverley perspective - the current seniors have always been a big soccer group which likely partially explains the top team's poor form and the smaller number of opens teams. But sometimes peer pressure can be a wonderful thing and kids can convince their mates to play rugby when they may not ordinarily have if not asked…or perhaps more correctly to convince their mums to let them play.

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

Looking at those results of waverley v cranbrook, certainly reinforces that reports of waverley rugby's demise are exaggerated

However I think it reflects that the waverley community is a bit worried ... They wouldn't forget the mirror image results against st Augustine's, earlier in the year

Without wanting to create a big argument, rugby is waverleys main sport, where they have a proud tradition ...( you wouldn't want to see waverley's tennis results) ... And it (rugby)used to be a major focus for previous headmasters ... And Paxton for all his good things, doesn't seem the type to be keen on kicking the footy around ...

I can only imagine what knox (and the upper north shore) thought ....in 1951 ... after trying to keep waverley out of the cas association for a good decade, when they were finally admitted, ( in 1941) waverley won 8 of the next 10 rugby competitions

The old Irish Catholics with their fighting spirit, and their rough and ready approach

So there is a long history there ... And while the derogatory words for Catholics seem to have disappeared, there is still no love lost ..

Fast forward to the new era of cheque book rugby, scholarship irregularities and world domination, and you have the rugby grapevine in overdrive

While plenty of kids at waverley play rugby league, plenty play rugby with easts and randwick feeder clubs, and there they mingle with a cross section of school kids...

However the kids couldnt care less, it's the mums and dads gasbagging

...everyone knows that scots have their $250 a head rugby lunch, at four seasons on May 30... Knox has their video scoreboard, and Ivy League campus , And cranbrook are spending up on all manner of external consultants ...with little johny learning skills from former greats

Rugby programme whatever.... Nothing substitutes for getting down to the local park, on a wet muddy day (if winter ever return) with dad, your mates, your brothers, sometimes even your tomboy sister ...

As Rodney kafer so eloquently states when he is coaching his sons under 10s team ... "Boys you are going to win some games, and you are going to lose some games, however in the great game of rugby...... the game they play in heaven ....you are going to learn some great things, which you definitely won't learn in your classroom ...."

 

[sidelineview]

AFL is in the mix now as well to dilute the numbers of rugby players and you get the feeling that will only grow.
But let's hope the 1st XV always remains the most 'prestigious' of teams in CAS schools to play for.

 

[sidelineview]

Plenty of Waverley kids play rugby league on the weekends as well which isn't a bad thing.

 

[Scythe]

For you Waverley old boys - the behaviour of the boys on the weekend was atrocious

Clapping a guy who hit another player first ....if it were my old school every kid who was clapping would also be suspended


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sidelineview]

For you Waverley old boys - the behaviour of the boys on the weekend was atrocious

Clapping a guy who hit another player first ..if it were my old school every kid who was clapping would also be suspended


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suspended or disciplined ? getting a bit carried away ?
we've already been through this debate (you must have missed it) ... schoolboy behaviour under the excitable circumstances .. not condoned but it happened. No doubt the teachers wouldn't have left it unattended.

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

My tipping has been atrocious .. So I'll only bother with the match of the round

Cranbrook v knox

Normally there is no way I'd miss a joeys v scots game, however with 2 very good teams, this one should attract a big crowd, and yours truly

Quite apart from the cranbrook old boy interest, There is going to be some great match ups in this game

First up I rate cranbrooks front row. Haven't quite identified if it is anyone in particular, but I always think a good hooker is the bedrock ... So I will be interested to compare mr 9 tries, (winders-leece) versus no name? (Who is the cranbrook hooker?)

Hill the cranbrook prop he is solid and has a good work rate ... And none of knox's returning cas reps are front rowers ... Or at least mr 9 tries, wasn't hooker in 2013... So cranbrook to dominate scrums

Cranbrook's line out seems very good, versus knox that by all accounts has a vulnerable line out.. So I will be looking at line out throwing

Then you have cranbrook's outstanding back row (mahony, summerhayes, makas) versus knox's equally good bachrowers ... jake pierce and Brett van zyl

Then you have 2 back lines with plenty of incisive runners, with Renton and Watson being both equally good

Certainly Renton would be your man in a kicking duel

While I think cranbrook might have it in set pieces, I am tipping knox on basis of EXPERIENCE.. Ie they have 4 players who made cas rep honours in 2013, to cranbrook's 1

However think it will be a close one and if cranbrook does win, it will be down to their cool calm coaching, and cranbrook having a better front row.