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COVID-19 Stuff Here

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
We get what "we" are prepared to pay for

The issue with most government subsidised health care is we all want Quality, Affordability
& Availability

The challenge is that we can only get two of the three at any one time


This is only partly true. The deregulation didn't make things a whole lot cheaper for taxpayers it just made it possible for private owners to profit massively.

The concept that we aren't prepared to pay for more seems incorrect to me as well. It has taken a Royal Commission to highlight how underfunded the sector is and how bad the levels of care have been. It takes a government to decide that this is the level of care that needs to be mandated and this is the cost and to budget for it.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Two new cases outside the Auckland region but linked to that cluster, allegedly up to six others in South Waikato. Level 3 about to be extended, I think.

Are people generally feeling positive about getting on top of it? Looks like it was identified pretty quickly.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
This is only partly true. The deregulation didn't make things a whole lot cheaper for taxpayers it just made it possible for private owners to profit massively.

The concept that we aren't prepared to pay for more seems incorrect to me as well. It has taken a Royal Commission to highlight how underfunded the sector is and how bad the levels of care have been. It takes a government to decide that this is the level of care that needs to be mandated and this is the cost and to budget for it.

To add to this, the Government's contribution is based on a score of each resident's care needs, using a tool called the Aged Care Funding Instrument (ACFI).

ACFI is used across resi care settings, regardless of ownership/profit model.

To generalise, public providers generally attract lower ACFI scores across their centres despite having far higher resident acuity levels and care needs. You can attribute this to a staff unwillingness to "game" the system.

Private providers are known for employing ACFI managers whose role is largely to ensure maximum funding can be squeezed out of each resident, within the rules.

Hospitals employ staff to do the same thing with the annual pricing revisions.

So when aunt Jude is given the option between the low price shabby public home and the glossy catalogue private home, the core component of Government subsidy is potentially the same. If she choses the catalogue home she'll be getting nicer carpets and meals/entertainment, but likely at the expense of a trained nursing workforce.
 

Teh Other Dave

Alan Cameron (40)
This is only partly true. The deregulation didn't make things a whole lot cheaper for taxpayers it just made it possible for private owners to profit massively.

The concept that we aren't prepared to pay for more seems incorrect to me as well. It has taken a Royal Commission to highlight how underfunded the sector is and how bad the levels of care have been. It takes a government to decide that this is the level of care that needs to be mandated and this is the cost and to budget for it.

What a great time for a royal commission!

I think generally, some structures designed to keep us safe have failed us. Aged care is one, another is public health.

The public health units in NSW are well-resourced relative to Victoria, and it has allowed the state to (so far) keep in touch with the outbreaks during this second wave. Victoria's outbreak originated differently, but my understanding is that their contact tracing was quickly overwhelmed.

In any event, cutting costs in two areas that are vital to our safety and wellbeing has proven to be not just penny wise and pound foolish, but have cost lives and resulted in economic disaster.

Maybe we'll rethink our priorities in the coming years. We're beefing up our defence and intelligence capability to deter foreign interference and prevent loss of life and economic loss, perhaps we should hold the same view of public health, general practice and aged care.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
This is only partly true. The deregulation didn't make things a whole lot cheaper for taxpayers it just made it possible for private owners to profit massively.

The concept that we aren't prepared to pay for more seems incorrect to me as well. It has taken a Royal Commission to highlight how underfunded the sector is and how bad the levels of care have been. It takes a government to decide that this is the level of care that needs to be mandated and this is the cost and to budget for it.


There is little evidence, despite the royal commission, the government will provide sufficient $$$
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
The whole approach to dementia care really sucks. Dealing with an elderly relative with dementia at the moment hospitalised for another issue and the hospital social worker told us she would ‘word’ an application in such a way so that we could have him shipped off to a locked ward with final stage patients (despite him being nowhere near that level yet).
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Are people generally feeling positive about getting on top of it? Looks like it was identified pretty quickly.

Right now I'd say mostly yes but that may change after 5:30 tonight when Jacinda tells us what's happening re: lockdown extension.
 

Rob42

John Solomon (38)
What a great time for a royal commission!

I think generally, some structures designed to keep us safe have failed us. Aged care is one, another is public health.

The public health units in NSW are well-resourced relative to Victoria, and it has allowed the state to (so far) keep in touch with the outbreaks during this second wave. Victoria's outbreak originated differently, but my understanding is that their contact tracing was quickly overwhelmed.

In any event, cutting costs in two areas that are vital to our safety and wellbeing has proven to be not just penny wise and pound foolish, but have cost lives and resulted in economic disaster.

Maybe we'll rethink our priorities in the coming years. We're beefing up our defence and intelligence capability to deter foreign interference and prevent loss of life and economic loss, perhaps we should hold the same view of public health, general practice and aged care.

A bit harsh to say our public health system has failed us. It does seem that the Victorian setup was less than ideal, the same thing could easily have happened in NSW with the Ruby Princess. But otherwise, I think our public health system has performed as well as any in the world, from advice to government to resources on the ground.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
The whole approach to dementia care really sucks. Dealing with an elderly relative with dementia at the moment hospitalised for another issue and the hospital social worker told us she would ‘word’ an application in such a way so that we could have him shipped off to a locked ward with final stage patients (despite him being nowhere near that level yet).



It reminds me to stay healthy, and never go into one of these joints, I watched my grandmother not know where she was for years.

Get healthy guys, stay healthy and die quick - this lingering shit sucks balls
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Auckland to remain at L3 (so no Blues v Crusaders) & rest of NZ at L2 (so Clan v 'canes will go ahead but stadium will be empty) until Wednesday week. They'll look at things again this Wednesday.

Hopefully the fucktards who've been stripping the supermarket shelves will now calm down & busy themselves working out wtf they're gunna do with all their toilet paper & baked beans so the rest of us can go about our normal shopping routines!
 

Teh Other Dave

Alan Cameron (40)
A bit harsh to say our public health system has failed us. It does seem that the Victorian setup was less than ideal, the same thing could easily have happened in NSW with the Ruby Princess. But otherwise, I think our public health system has performed as well as any in the world, from advice to government to resources on the ground.


When I say 'public health', I mean the medical specialty of public health, as opposed to the public (government) health system/sector.
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
Boyo, a good cartoon.
As you know, a fiscal conservative would have allowed the economy to keep working (no business closures, no industry destruction, no draconian stay at home measures enforced by armed police).
Simultaneously, all those at risk would have had an immediate support mechanism thrown around them i.e. old age homes put into professional management and high quality care brought in; a nation-wide meals on wheels rolled out for the aged and infirm at home; all those not testing positive get to go about their daily business.
It would cost taxpayers a lot less and help those who need it.
Meanwhile the business derided by the cartoonist would have a much better chance of surviving, creating wealth, and providing jobs.

And just where is this Utopia? Fiscal conservatives in charge in this country let the virus spread almost uncontrolled in aged care facilities.
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
And just where is this Utopia? Fiscal conservatives in charge in this country let the virus spread almost uncontrolled in aged care facilities.
There are no fiscal conservatives in Australia.
The costs of the nation-wide response to the virus are immeasurable and will be paid for by the next two generations. And that's just the financial costs.
 

Ignoto

Greg Davis (50)
There are no fiscal conservatives in Australia.
The costs of the nation-wide response to the virus are immeasurable and will be paid for by the next two generations. And that's just the financial costs.

I'm always curious when the older generation pulls this line out. Why do they care?

This is the second time in just over a decade that the younger generation have had to deal with a catastrophic economic issue. The loudest voices in this debate will be long dead while the younger ones are doing the clean up.

Interestingly enough, the same people who tout out the financial ruin line keep telling me that 'clean coal' would cause my power bills to go down (they haven't), that the avocado and toast I have once a week is the reason it's so difficult to buy a house and that my Private Health Premium going up every year without making a claim is acceptable and there's nothing they can do.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
The company that owns the cool store that's Ground Zero for the Auckland outbreak also has a Melbourne site where two workers recently tested positive so the possibility they're linked us being looked into.

In what counts as less-shit news (there being no good news right now) the virus that's now active in NZ is genetically different enough to the original that they're confident it's fresh off the boat/ plane & hasn't been lying dormant or quietly spreading these past three months.
 

formerflanker

Ken Catchpole (46)
I'm always curious when the older generation pulls this line out. Why do they care?
I'll disclose I'm one of the nearly-older generation.
Caring comes from having skin in the game - children and grandchildren, and a deep respect for the country I migrated to.
Lots of the older generation have a vested interest in seeing their country succeed, and for their family and friends to be successful and happy too.
You seem to be arguing that just because a rugby fan is nearing the end of their rugby watching days, why should they care about the future of their game and their team. That's not logical.
It's human nature to want the best for those you love even if you're not here to see all of it happen.
Anyway enough deep thinking for me.
Here's some statistics for you, courtesy of Steve Waterson in today's Australian:

On this week’s numbers our governments have spent more than $220bn and put 750,000 people out of work.
 

Ignoto

Greg Davis (50)
I'll disclose I'm one of the nearly-older generation.
Caring comes from having skin in the game - children and grandchildren, and a deep respect for the country I migrated to.
Lots of the older generation have a vested interest in seeing their country succeed, and for their family and friends to be successful and happy too.
You seem to be arguing that just because a rugby fan is nearing the end of their rugby watching days, why should they care about the future of their game and their team. That's not logical.

See, these sentiments would be fine coming out of the 'fiscally responsible' camp if they backed it up with anything to demonstrate they cared for the generations coming after them. But, we see time and time again that they have to be dragged to the table, kicking and screaming just to talk about how the climate is changing. Nor do they want to discuss the ever increasing gap between the haves and have nots.

So it's hard to stomach that this camp cares about leaving the place in a better position than the left it, when they ignore what matters most to the younger generation. The twilight generation is definitely one that tells the younger ones "do as I say, not as I do".

Here's some statistics for you, courtesy of Steve Waterson in today's Australian:

On this week’s numbers our governments have spent more than $220bn and put 750,000 people out of work.

I feel like we've gone in circles about the economy and the impacts on both lockdown and not locking down does, so I'm not going to waste any more of my time on that particular topic.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
There are no fiscal conservatives in Australia.
The costs of the nation-wide response to the virus are immeasurable and will be paid for by the next two generations. And that's just the financial costs.
Yeah there are.
F conservatives are the ones, whose understanding, is that the national budget is no different to a household budget.

Which it's not....
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
There is little evidence, despite the royal commission, the government will provide sufficient $$$

And why would they FP? The Liberals go to every election promising to cut spending, lower taxes (mostly for the well off) and to maintain a budget surplus. Time after time the voting population show their ignorance or selfishness and vote them in. Many aspects of our current crisis in the way the pandemic has been mismanaged can, imo, be linked back to the emasculation of the public sector by successive conservative governments.

They will be voted in again in the future on precisely the same ill-founded policies for the long term good of this once great country.
 
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