Declining participation and ARU plans for the future

[barbarian]

I get your point Dave, and I think it's vital that clubs get some attention.

But this line here is key:

You cant build from the top down - business / sport need foundations.

Let's take away all the 7s talk for a bit (it's just one element of their plan), and look at the substance.

To me, the biggest new aspect of this plan is investment in schools across Australia. Going in and hitting kids from all different backgrounds, some of whom have never even heard of rugby before.

Yes it's only 3 weeks, and some of them will never play the game again. But I am sure it will resonate with some, and get them wanting to play more regularly.

This, to me, only serves to strengthen the foundations of our game.

Now we of course need to ensure clubs are included in this process. But surely the schools program will see a new source of players for clubs, no?
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[Dave Beat]

I get your point Dave, and I think it's vital that clubs get some attention.

But this line here is key:




Let's take away all the 7s talk for a bit (it's just one element of their plan), and look at the substance.

To me, the biggest new aspect of this plan is investment in schools across Australia. Going in and hitting kids from all different backgrounds, some of whom have never even heard of rugby before.

Yes it's only 3 weeks, and some of them will never play the game again. But I am sure it will resonate with some, and get them wanting to play more regularly.

This, to me, only serves to strengthen the foundations of our game.

Now we of course need to ensure clubs are included in this process. But surely the schools program will see a new source of players for clubs, no?
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I'm sure you will find 100's of posts in 100's of threads on this forum guiding the powers to be about ensuring rugby is in schools.

This is not some new wonderful idea.

I've referenced the Tah's great "Game On" set up that is already there for schools.

I've said before clubs are in the best place to execute this growth and development - it also provides a pathway and a local team for the families to follow, and support, and that pushes up.

A number of areas I know are already actively working on the schools, in it not new.

 

[Braveheart81]

I've had a look at the plan, very sexy on paper - BUT.
I reckon it stinks of pissing up $ against the wall though.

We are in this position because of neglect.
You cant build from the top down - business / sport need foundations.
We have an awesome game, with a variation in sevens.
We have clubs all over Australia wanting to grow and volunteer allot of hours.

"We are going to develop a whole new workforce, and develop new forms of the game". how many layers of mgmt / support / unions would this involve ??? we will require a very large urinal

There is nothing wrong with the games we have.
15's
7's
We have the workforce in the clubs at the moment (the grass roots which have been neglected), they are crying out for support. They have a very vested interest in the game as it provides the pathway, support them.

The ARU's plan always has to be something they're at the centre of otherwise they're entirely reliant on others doing the job for them.

It's pretty obvious that club players should be the people applying for development officer positions and then leverage from their clubs to recruit volunteers to help them drive their initiatives and in turn recruit more players for their clubs.

 

[barbarian]

I've said before clubs are in the best place to execute this growth and development - it also provides a pathway and a local team for the families to follow, and support, and that pushes up.

A number of areas I know are already actively working on the schools, in it not new.

But Dave, outside of some Sydney rugby enclaves up North, relying on clubs and volunteers just doesn't cut it.

The ARU are actually putting their money where their mouths are and hiring people to do this on a daily basis. They will develop a program and ensure they hit as many schools as possible.

Of course this is already happening, but now we will hopefully see it expand widely, right across Australia. This is a national, co-ordinated reach that can only come from ARU investment, and is clearly (to me, anyway) the best way to approach it.

I don't understand how relying on clubs to do this on an ad-hoc basis is superior.
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[Dave Beat]

But Dave, outside of some Sydney rugby enclaves up North, relying on clubs and volunteers just doesn't cut it.

The ARU are actually putting their money where their mouths are and hiring people to do this on a daily basis. They will develop a program and ensure they hit as many schools as possible.

Of course this is already happening, but now we will hopefully see it expand widely, right across Australia. This is a national, co-ordinated reach that can only come from ARU investment, and is clearly (to me, anyway) the best way to approach it.

I don't understand how relying on clubs to do this on an ad-hoc basis is superior.
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I'm all for growth, and the game.
I'm very nervous about their execution, and how they implement.
You reference the Sydney rugby enclaves up North ?? We work hard, we promote the game, and the game is played -

From the NSW Development Manager last month.
Our upcoming Gala Days are:

Northern Beaches: 18th March 2016. HAS BEEN CANCELLED DUE TO LACK OF ENTRANTS.

And that is even with allot of people doing work, in what people think is a rugby strong hold.

Participants have been banging on for a while now about ARU only looking at the top - forgive my frustration and worry.

 

[Braveheart81]

Let's take away all the 7s talk for a bit (it's just one element of their plan), and look at the substance.

To me, the biggest new aspect of this plan is investment in schools across Australia. Going in and hitting kids from all different backgrounds, some of whom have never even heard of rugby before.

This is even worse than Roger Davis' comments about Western Sydney!

At least you haven't singled out one group of kids to be hit.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I've had a look at the plan, very sexy on paper - BUT.
I reckon it stinks of pissing up $ against the wall though.

We are in this position because of neglect.
You cant build from the top down - business / sport need foundations.
We have an awesome game, with a variation in sevens.
We have clubs all over Australia wanting to grow and volunteer allot of hours.

"We are going to develop a whole new workforce, and develop new forms of the game" how many layers of mgmt / support / unions would this involve ??? will would require a very large urinal

There is nothing wrong with the games we have.
15's
7's
We have the workforce in the clubs at the moment (the grass roots which have been neglected), they are crying out for support. They have a very vested interest in the game as it provides the pathway, support them

See I read the plan and saw a marked emphasis on expanding the base from the bottom up rather than top down. Driving the game into schools nationwide as a means to reach the greatest number of children seems like a good idea. Certainly not pissing it up against a wall.

The wmphasis on 7s is a good one. Reach out to the schools via the development program and then establish 7s as a summer sport in order to corrale as many participants as possible.

 

[barbarian]

I'm all for growth, and the game.
I'm very nervous about their execution, and how they implement.
You reference the Sydney rugby enclaves up North ?? We work hard, we promote the game, and the game is played -

From the NSW Development Manager last month.
Our upcoming Gala Days are:

Northern Beaches: 18th March 2016. HAS BEEN CANCELLED DUE TO LACK OF ENTRANTS.

And that is even with allot of people doing work, in what people think is a rugby strong hold.

Participants have been banging on for a while now about ARU only looking at the top - forgive my frustration and worry.

Oh of course, we all are a bit nervous about it. No-one is in any doubt the extent of the challenge.

But it has to start somewhere, and I think the ARU are going about it in a pretty sensible way.
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[Braveheart81]

I find it weird when people talk about the ARU having too much of a top down focus.

Surely the most stupid thing they could ever do is not focus on the one area that makes money and drives their ability to spend any money on anything else.

It also surprises me how much people think it would be in Australian rugby's interests to break away from South Africa. We generate much more revenue by being part of a competition that has significant interest outside of the small markets of Australia and New Zealand.

 

[qwerty51]

AFL and NRL don't consider Aus/NZ markets small. Fact is we need to compete with them and the only way to do that is focus on rivalling their competitions.

 

[Dave Beat]

I find it weird when people talk about the ARU having too much of a top down focus.

Surely the most stupid thing they could ever do is not focus on the one area that makes money and drives their ability to spend any money on anything else.

It also surprises me how much people think it would be in Australian rugby's interests to break away from South Africa. We generate much more revenue by being part of a competition that has significant interest outside of the small markets of Australia and New Zealand.

I'm sure i paid a levey this year for my U8 to play?
I'm sure i read some where that the ARU receives some of that?

When I did my times table at school.
1 x levy = 1levy
10 x levy = 10levy.
It would continue.

Then equations followed after times table as these players become supporters, and supporters increase revenues further.

Could be a rather attractive area to spend time growing.

 

[Braveheart81]

AFL and NRL don't consider Aus/NZ markets small. Fact is we need to compete with them and the only way to do that is focus on rivalling their competitions.

Of course, but a simple restructure of the Super Rugby competition isn't suddenly convert vast swathes of NRL and AFL fans.

There is no doubt rugby needs to be more popular in Australia but it would be absolutely ludicrous to suggest that the only thing stopping lots more fans coming on board was the structure of the competition.

 

[qwerty51]

Not the only thing but I think it's a massive factor. There's so little games on per week that would interest the casual fan.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm sure i paid a levey this year for my U8 to play?
I'm sure i read some where that the ARU receives some of that?

When I did my times table at school.
1 x levy = 1levy
10 x levy = 10levy.
It would continue.

Then equations followed after times table as these players become supporters, and supporters increase revenues further.

Could be a rather attractive area to spend time growing.

What do you think the net revenue to the ARU is from each player?

Of course growing the number of players playing the game has to be a priority but thinking that a bottom up model is going to be the best driver of revenue for the ARU is lunacy.

In modern professional sports where TV rights, corporate sponsorship and matchday revenue at the biggest matches provides the vast bulk of the revenue, how is there a better alternative than making that a focus?

The revenue to be able to grow the game at the grassroots level is always going to come from surpluses generated by the Wallabies.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

What do you think the net revenue to the ARU is from each player?

Of course growing the number of players playing the game has to be a priority but thinking that a bottom up model is going to be the best driver of revenue for the ARU is lunacy.

In modern professional sports where TV rights, corporate sponsorship and matchday revenue at the biggest matches provides the vast bulk of the revenue, how is there a better alternative than making that a focus?

The revenue to be able to grow the game at the grassroots level is always going to come from surpluses generated by the Wallabies.

I agree with much of this sentiment. But I also think participation should be a priority. From experience Rugby is very much a players game both on and off the pitch. The promotion of 7s may very well tilt that but so far throughout my time playing and supporting the game this has most certainly been the case.

We need to boost the numbers playing in order to help grow our commercial base at the top of the spectrum.

 

[barbarian]

Participation is obviously very important, and needs to be fostered.

But it’s interesting to look at what Cricket Australia is doing here. Whilst very different to rugby, their game is absolutely dying at a Senior participation level. People just don’t have the time to commit to a full season of 6-8 hour matches on weekends.

And yet with 20/20 they have found a new market, both in participation and at the top level. The Big Bash has changed the game, and interest in cricket is as healthy as it has ever been.

At a participation level the game is moving away from long-form Saturdays on turf pitches in whites (though that will always exist), and we are seeing big growth in midweek and weekend T20 matches. Some of these are 8-a-side, with an emphasis on speed and enjoyment rather than what you would call ‘pure’ cricket.

Now there are so many differences between cricket and rugby, so we can’t say this is how we will end up. But you can see cricket’s imprint on what the ARU are trying to do here, especially with 7s and Viva 7s.


And it also shows a game can survive, and even thrive, with reduced participation. Again we should be encouraging participation and helping it grow (as CA are doing too), but try to build up another route to the game that doesn’t involve slogging it out on a Saturday morning.
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[Jezza]

My boys go to what has traditionally been seen as a "rugby nursery school" in Sydneys East, with quite a few Wallabies in the old boys.
The AFL has approached the school to take the boys for their PE classes once a week for 5 weeks, all expenses paid, which the school accepted with open arms (why wouldn't they?).
At the end of the 5 weeks the kids came home with a Sherrin and a years kids membership to the Swans, giving them free kids tickets to games for 2016.
I couldn't get that stuff out on my house fast enough.
Now that's a 5 year plan!

 

[wamberal]

This is going about as well as comments that rugby should be more like league, wambers.

Good. We are in the shit, I am looking around for a way out and others are apparently happy to keep digging.


I will restate my point in simple English.


A poster pointed out that participation rates in certain schools were increasing for soccer, while our rates were static or declining.


In my experience at school, there were a lot of kids who were not interested in sport, but who were forced to pretend to play something. I used the term "swots and nerds" as shorthand for these chaps.


Others are welcome to disagree, but again in my experience, it is a lot more enjoyable and easier for these types to have a gentle kick around with a soccer ball than it is to pretend to play a sport like ours.


I am not saying they should play one or the other. I am not casting ethnic slurs. Frankly, I am simply trying to apply a bit of intelligent analysis to this forum.


A somewhat lonely task, I must admit.

 

[Keiran]

More worrying that the mulit-million dollar loss suffered by the ARU is the decline in participation in 15 a side rugby.

And just to show that he has little grasp of reality, he thinks schools will solve the problem. Alas, even Sydney GPS schools are experiencing a decline in teams.

Meanwhile, rugby participation across the country increased by 2.7 per cent in 2015, but a 7.6 per cent decline in club XV participation has once again thrown the spotlight on whether rugby is being deserted for other major footballing codes.
However, the ARU says growth in club sevens, non-contact VIVA7s and schools rugby programs will fill the void of evaporating club players.
"I'm not happy with the figure," said Pulver of the decline in club rugby XV players. "Overall I still think there's probably a decline in regular clubs fifteens which is problematic and we want to address, but the really good news is the new parts of the game like women's sevens grew 33 per cent. There are a lot of codes out there vying for the hearts and minds of young fans and young players and we've got to make sure we've got the right strategy in place to win our fair share."


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/aru-announce-98m-deficit-for-2015-20160411-go3o9m.html#ixzz45ZovmQvz
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

Rugby participation includes school visits. Next thing they will count walking past a rugby field as participation.

 

[barbarian]

My boys go to what has traditionally been seen as a "rugby nursery school" in Sydneys East, with quite a few Wallabies in the old boys.
The AFL has approached the school to take the boys for their PE classes once a week for 5 weeks, all expenses paid, which the school accepted with open arms (why wouldn't they?).
At the end of the 5 weeks the kids came home with a Sherrin and a years kids membership to the Swans, giving them free kids tickets to games for 2016.
I couldn't get that stuff out on my house fast enough.
Now that's a 5 year plan!

I think that's exactly what the ARU 5 year plan involves, except they are doing it over 3 weeks in primary schools.
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