Decriminilization of illicit drugs??

[Bowside]

Don't you think the people who are prone to addiction will still find way to be addicted?

I have a brother who has wasted quite a lot of his life to pot, and hocked quite a lot of mine and my family stuff in the process, but I don't blame the pot. He did it all. People aren't hopeless victims of these substances that have the ability (yes, some less than others) to make different decisions.

Why should I be made a criminal just because my wife and I, or some friends and I, wish to partake in the odd reefer for a bit of a laugh and some good times. We are responsible adults who wouldn't become addicts or suddenly say "This shit ain't cutting it, I might have a crack at crack". Criminal record is far to harsh for that.

I totally agree.

Some people are just doomed to addiction. Legal or Illegal they will still find ways to try drugs and get hooked on them. Might as well educate and offer help rather than tar everyone with the same brush.

 

[Gnostic]

Don't you think the people who are prone to addiction will still find way to be addicted?

I have a brother who has wasted quite a lot of his life to pot, and hocked quite a lot of mine and my family stuff in the process, but I don't blame the pot. He did it all. People aren't hopeless victims of these substances that have the ability (yes, some less than others) to make different decisions.

Why should I be made a criminal just because my wife and I, or some friends and I, wish to partake in the odd reefer for a bit of a laugh and some good times. We are responsible adults who wouldn't become addicts or suddenly say "This shit ain't cutting it, I might have a crack at crack". Criminal record is far to harsh for that.

They will indeed, perhaps not even to drugs but to certain behaviours that given the same endorphin rush. An anlagolous comparision cannot be made with Corruption though as such activities are invariably to satisfy a base greed on the part of the individual.

These drugs IMO should remain illegal simply because of the risks to scoiety from their use. Immediate effects of so many illicit substances can be very unpredictable and very dangerous to bystanders and place huge drain on resources to care for and support the user while the risk of long term effects are significant.

As for the casual use I will draw a direct comparision to the criminality of me driving fast. I have completed a number of advanced driver training courses and have driven vehicles regularly at speeds in excess of 230Km/H. Should the public be placed at risk and have to cover the consequences in the unlikely event that I lose control? Of course not such things are illegal for the greater good and should remain so. If I choose however to ignore that then I should also have a complete understanding of the penalty that I will face for breaking said law.

As for the arguments of Cave Dweller about a "natural product" how silly. A Fly Agaric mushroom is natural, Ricin is natural and extremely toxic ....... The list goes on and on just in the plant world. In any event as I said many posts ago the Canabis Sativa prevalent in the community for drug use today couldn't be further from the strain of the 60s, 70s and even 80s and remain in the Genus. Indeed as I said many strains have been genetically engineered to produce vast amounts of THC (the active component) between 10 to 100 times more than in the "Natural" weed. This has direct implication when discussing the impact of the drug on users.

Anybody wishing to consider the decriminalisation of drugs really should watch the full episodes of the series I mentioned.

 

[suckerforred]

As a person who has spent far to much time dealing with the negative effects of drug taking, both legal and illegal, I am really not sure where I fall in this argurment.

My initial reaction is - Fuck NO!!!!!!!!! But well, is what we are doing now working?

The big thing is education. One of the issues that I see is that people don't, or can't, see the potiential consequences of their actions.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Don't you think the people who are prone to addiction will still find way to be addicted?

I have a brother who has wasted quite a lot of his life to pot, and hocked quite a lot of mine and my family stuff in the process, but I don't blame the pot. He did it all. People aren't hopeless victims of these substances that have the ability (yes, some less than others) to make different decisions.

Why should I be made a criminal just because my wife and I, or some friends and I, wish to partake in the odd reefer for a bit of a laugh and some good times. We are responsible adults who wouldn't become addicts or suddenly say "This shit ain't cutting it, I might have a crack at crack". Criminal record is far to harsh for that.

Cannabis is not even addictive. It is a natural plant and no one ever in the history of it ever overdose on it.

In Argentina drugs are being decriminalized. The reason for it is not to make tax money on it or to control it but not to treat addicts as criminals. Legal or not people are going to use drugs and giving them a record will just plunge them further into addiction and the underground.

 

[Sully]

Cannabis is not even addictive.

That's a joke right. Has to be.


Sent using Tapatalk on a very old phone

 

[Cave Dweller]

As for the arguments of Cave Dweller about a "natural product" how silly. A Fly Agaric mushroom is natural, Ricin is natural and extremely toxic ....... The list goes on and on just in the plant world. In any event as I said many posts ago the Canabis Sativa prevalent in the community for drug use today couldn't be further from the strain of the 60s, 70s and even 80s and remain in the Genus. Indeed as I said many strains have been genetically engineered to produce vast amounts of THC (the active component) between 10 to 100 times more than in the "Natural" weed. This has direct implication when discussing the impact of the drug on users.

Anybody wishing to consider the decriminalisation of drugs really should watch the full episodes of the series I mentioned.

You see just like mine was a opinion so are yours. We all have different opinions about a thing but it does not make it a fact. It is silly to compare a mushroom which is a fungus not a plant. You know what a fungus is do you? The do not produce their own food or ingest it they absorb it. Tell me what are the uses for that mushroom? I can tell you with cannabis sativa we can use the seeds which has a drying oil used in the manufacture of varnish, paints, and soap. The seeds are also used as bird feed. The fibers have a variety of uses in textiles and in rope.

Hemp is classified as Cannabis Sativa yes but your statement concerning THC and Cannabis Sativa is wrong.

Lets get scientific. My favorite subject. You know you get a type of Cannabis that is high in the psychoactive cannabinoid, THC, and low in the antipsychoactive cannabinoid, CBD? That is your marijuana. Another one is high in CBD and low in THC. That is your industrial hemp. The name Hemp originated from old Europeans as a generic term to use fiber. Just look at all the plants called hemp. Manila hemp (abacá, Musa textilis), sisal hemp (Agave sisalana), Mauritius hem (Furcraea gigantea), New Zealand hemp (Phormium tenax), Sunn hemp(Crotalaria juncea), Indian hemp (jute, Corchorus capsularis or C. clitorus), Indian hemp (Apocynum cannabinum), bow-string hemp (Sansevieria cylindrica).

Dumb law makers of the US decided to call all hemp species hemp marijuana aka marijuana what they call now. When they legalize hemp is not saying they legalize marijuana. They are two different types of species of Cannabis. Hemp is antimarijuana because it has a THC below 1.0 percent and a CBD/THC ratio greater than one and is not capable of inducing a psychoactive effect. Cannabis variants are basically classified on the basis of their THC-CBD balance. Can you see what is wrong with your statement? You looked at it as one variant. Industrial hemp is not genetically engineered because it is a different type of variant given to us by nature. So saying hemp = drugs is wrong. Good luck getting high on that. Marijuana = drugs yes. But its not hemp. Industrial hemp and feral hemp and the wild hemp contains less than 0.5 percent of THC. To get high on that you need to smoke around 15 cigarettes of it in a world record time! You will be puking before you even reach that amount.

That is why I use the word pot mostly not to make people go running around calling hemp marijuana.

 

[Cave Dweller]

That's a joke right. Has to be.


Sent using Tapatalk on a very old phone

Nope. Do not confuse mental addiction with chemical addiction.

 

[Nusadan]

CD, as an ex-farmer myself and knowing the industrial benefits of growing hemp which is much more easily produced than most of the mainstream crops and has numerous end uses, I get very upset at the stigma attached to it! It's the chemical giants such as Monstanto that lobby hard to prevent mass production of the hemp for obvious reasons...

But that's getting off the topic though....

 

[Cave Dweller]

CD, as an ex-farmer myself and knowing the industrial benefits of growing hemp which is much more easily produced than most of the mainstream crops and has numerous end uses, I get very upset at the stigma attached to it! It's the chemical giants such as Monstanto that lobby hard to prevent mass production of the hemp for obvious reasons...

But that's getting off the topic though....

I totally agree with you. You can ask any person who has not much knowledge in farming and such to look at field corn and sweetcorn. They will not be able to tell them apart. Same thing with hemp and marijuana. But you know calling them the same is wrong for good reason. No member of the vegetable kingdom has ever been more misunderstood than hemp and so much fraudulent claims and controversy is attached to it.

When we go back to pot and addiction. My first statement on this subject about the quality and control I.E the consumer do not know what is in it when he buys it. Buying it fro Carlos on the street corner you do not know what is in it. Because 9/10 old Carlos has sprayed Angel Dust over it or mixed it with Loko Weed. Then there is those who mixed it with Mandrax which has highly addictive chemicals. Drug dealer wants his customers to comeback he wants to make money. So you will not get clean pure pot. Does studies and statistics show that? No. So they say Cannabis is addictive. But did they proof that no. All they proofed is that people buying it from drug dealers 30 percent of them get addicted to it. Did they test the samples if its pure Cannabis or tainted ones. No. So they run around and post warnings it is addictive it is the gateway drug so on so on. Seriously. Legal or not. When someone wants to use drugs he is going to use drugs. Its just when illegal he is making Mr. Drug dealer rich who tainted it with all kinds of stuff where legal he is making government rich who made sure you are not smoking rat poison with it.

 

[Schadenfreude]

I never understood why a dealer would add Angel Dust, or Coke or speed to Weed... I mean it makes no financial sense, plus it's a completely separate distribution chain, it's a pain in the arse, you piss off your customers...

 

[Cave Dweller]

How would the customer knows? He is high to him its good shit. Coke has a street value of 80 000 USD per key but it goes for 600 USD per key from the farm.

 

[Schadenfreude]

How would the customer knows? He is high to him its good shit. Coke has a street value of 80 000 USD per key but it goes for 600 USD per key from the farm.

If I was selling yellow paint, I might be able to make it yellower by mixing in saffron. But why would I add something that would increase the price I pay for my product by 5000%, but not be able to charge any more.

Plus my paint supplier, doesn't sell saffron - I have a local supplier for paint, but when I want to buy saffron, it needs to be imported, and because of its high price there's a lot of dodgy individuals involved in importing it.

Plus, going back to drugs, the penalties for coke are much higher, so why take a financial loss for much greater risk?

And they are different drugs, taken for different reasons.

 

[Nusadan]

If I was selling yellow paint, I might be able to make it yellower by mixing in saffron. But why would I add something that would increase the price I pay for my product by 5000%, but not be able to charge any more.

Plus my paint supplier, doesn't sell saffron - I have a local supplier for paint, but when I want to buy saffron, it needs to be imported, and because of its high price there's a lot of dodgy individuals involved in importing it.

Plus, going back to drugs, the penalties for coke are much higher, so why take a financial loss for much greater risk?

And they are different drugs, taken for different reasons.

Dealers mix in other drugs into marijuana to increase their resales at a sometimes higher price, also to ensnare their customers into trying harder drugs.

The price of marijuana is not solely determined by penalities for using/selling it as compared to coke, it is determined by market forces as well, i.e. one can grow marijuana under the house using lights etc, anywhere in the world and can mostly for own use, whilst coke can only be produced in certain areas with impunity.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Dealers mix in other drugs into marijuana to increase their resales at a sometimes higher price, also to ensnare their customers into trying harder drugs.

The price of marijuana is not solely determined by penalities for using/selling it as compared to coke, it is determined by market forces as well, i.e. one can grow marijuana under the house using lights etc, anywhere in the world and can mostly for own use, whilst coke can only be produced in certain areas with impunity.

I understand that's the story - but it doesn't make any sense.

Anyone ever seen it?

And you reinforce my point - a weed dealer is less likely to have a load of harder drugs on them.

 

[Gnostic]

You see just like mine was a opinion so are yours. We all have different opinions about a thing but it does not make it a fact. It is silly to compare a mushroom which is a fungus not a plant. You know what a fungus is do you? The do not produce their own food or ingest it they absorb it. Tell me what are the uses for that mushroom? I can tell you with cannabis sativa we can use the seeds which has a drying oil used in the manufacture of varnish, paints, and soap. The seeds are also used as bird feed. The fibers have a variety of uses in textiles and in rope.

Hemp is classified as Cannabis Sativa yes but your statement concerning THC and Cannabis Sativa is wrong.

Lets get scientific. My favorite subject. You know you get a type of Cannabis that is high in the psychoactive cannabinoid, THC, and low in the antipsychoactive cannabinoid, CBD? That is your marijuana. Another one is high in CBD and low in THC. That is your industrial hemp. The name Hemp originated from old Europeans as a generic term to use fiber. Just look at all the plants called hemp. Manila hemp (abacá, Musa textilis), sisal hemp (Agave sisalana), Mauritius hem (Furcraea gigantea), New Zealand hemp (Phormium tenax), Sunn hemp(Crotalaria juncea), Indian hemp (jute, Corchorus capsularis or C. clitorus), Indian hemp (Apocynum cannabinum), bow-string hemp (Sansevieria cylindrica).

Dumb law makers of the US decided to call all hemp species hemp marijuana aka marijuana what they call now. When they legalize hemp is not saying they legalize marijuana. They are two different types of species of Cannabis. Hemp is antimarijuana because it has a THC below 1.0 percent and a CBD/THC ratio greater than one and is not capable of inducing a psychoactive effect. Cannabis variants are basically classified on the basis of their THC-CBD balance. Can you see what is wrong with your statement? You looked at it as one variant. Industrial hemp is not genetically engineered because it is a different type of variant given to us by nature. So saying hemp = drugs is wrong. Good luck getting high on that. Marijuana = drugs yes. But its not hemp. Industrial hemp and feral hemp and the wild hemp contains less than 0.5 percent of THC. To get high on that you need to smoke around 15 cigarettes of it in a world record time! You will be puking before you even reach that amount.

That is why I use the word pot mostly not to make people go running around calling hemp marijuana.

FFS. The drug, THC is almost exclusively produced in strains of the plant Cannabis Sativa, which is ilegal to cultivate regardless of THC content. The rest of this is irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Cave Dweller]

FFS. The drug, THC is almost exclusively produced in strains of the plant Cannabis Sativa, which is ilegal to cultivate regardless of THC content. The rest of this is irrelevant to the discussion.

Nope. Learn what is the difference between them. I can provide you sources but that would be illegalas drug research such as cannabis is illegal in most countries. All you will see is government reports and some few clinical studies but nothing exactly to what is cannabis really. The cannabis plant can be divided into 6 main sections. Bud, Stem, Branches, Nodes, Leaves, and Main Cola. Male plants got low levels of THC. The female plant when pollinated does produce THC but also produces seeds which prevent larger quantities of bud from being produced. A non-pollinated female (sinsemilla) plant will produce more flowering buds with no seeds and will produce more quantities of THC than the male plant or a seeded female plant. The buds produce resin, which contain THC, and can drip down onto the leaves. So you see again not only are you talking about the scientific classification for hemp which is not marijuana but your assumption about THC is wrong.

Plus you got THC wrong. The main ingredient of the cannabinoids that gives the high effect is called - delta 9 THC. All strains vary in THC levels that come in different percentages. Some plants may contain 100% THC but the "levels" of THC may be low. Other plants have only 60% THC, but the "levels" of THC may be very high. The difference between THC levels and THC quantities is that THC levels are genetic. They are not under the influence of the grower. THC quantities on the other hand are. This is to do with bud mass and how much resin can be generated in that bud mass. Some bud may only contain 20% THC, with a THC level of 5. The same plant grown under better conditions and light will produce 70% THC, with a THC level of 5. The ‘5’ is genetic. The quantities of 20% and 70% are under the grower’s control. But that is with marijuana not industrial hemp.

That all was relevant to the discussion because when cannabis is illegal it means industrial hemp is also illegal and all the positive things it can be used for cannot be done. Normally when they say making cannabis legal people jump to drugs and potheads and THC and Bruce Lee but they forget the reason why some sources wants to legalise it is mainly for its Industrial uses due to the fact that they class marijuana and industrial hemp as the same thing.

I understand that's the story - but it doesn't make any sense.

Anyone ever seen it?

And you reinforce my point - a weed dealer is less likely to have a load of harder drugs on them.

A drug dealer is a drug dealer. Do you think drug dealers will only specialize in weed? You can not see it if its laced with anything unless you have a lab and test it. And when a person is arrested for possesion of cannabis they do not sent it away to a lab like with coke and heroine. So its not tested.

Just one question though. Cannabis addiction is treated how? Heroine and alcohol addiction is treated how? Answer me those two questions. Go here for some help. In psychiatry there is a list of classifications for addictions of all abusive substances. It is contained in a paper called - ICD-10 (classifications of Mental and Behavioral Disorders) which you can read on-line here. http://www.who.int/whosis/icd10/

 

[Schadenfreude]

A drug dealer is a drug dealer. Do you think drug dealers will only specialize in weed? You can not see it if its laced with anything unless you have a lab and test it. And when a person is arrested for possesion of cannabis they do not sent it away to a lab like with coke and heroine. So its not tested.

Yes - if you grow weed you specialise in weed. And if cops could get a longer conviction for someone having a higher class drug, I'm sure they would test it.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Yes - if you grow weed you specialise in weed. And if cops could get a longer conviction for someone having a higher class drug, I'm sure they would test it.

Now you are going into trafficking. Do the user buy his joints from a local trafficker or a seller who bought it from a trafficker who has bought it from another guy who has bought it from a farm? Trafficking has longer convictions but cannabis do not get tested. Only weighed as its not a man created drug. Its a plant. Plus you get possession and then you get trafficking. Reason why drug addiction clinics have such a high number of pot users is to the simple reason that the court sent them there. They go because they got caught with a joint or failed a drug test at school or work (typically for having smoked marijuana days ago, not for being impaired), or because they were caught by a law enforcement officer—and attending a marijuana treatment program is what’s required to avoid expulsion, dismissal, or incarceration simple fact.

Anyone has yet to repudiate the 1988 finding of the US Drug Enforcement Administration’s own administrative law judge, Francis Young, who concluded after extensive testimony that marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. You will also notice that people who have used pot and got arrested for it do not have arrests or get later arrested for hard drugs like heroin or coke. Trying to reduce heroin addiction by preventing marijuana use, it’s been said, is like trying to reduce motorcycle fatalities by cracking down on bicycle riding. Read this.

There is lots of druhs who people OD on that is legal. Why is pot illegal then? It has more uses for positive scenarios like industrial uses and medical uses than its got for negatives one that is getting wasted on. Alcohol is the same. But do everyone who smokes pot becomes a lazy couch potato or everyone who uses alcohol a alcoholic? No. People seem to forget just like when people have a glass of wine or a beer to relax or after work some prefer to smoke ajoint. Does this mean they are going to fall apart?

Btw you still owe me the answer to my two questions.

 

[Sully]

Tell you what Cave Dweller you guys legalise drug use and we'll stick with the 2 drugs we already have causing havoc in our society and we'll all be happy.

 

[Cave Dweller]

Tell you what Cave Dweller you guys legalise drug use and we'll stick with the 2 drugs we already have causing havoc in our society and we'll all be happy.

lol But you can buy pills which contain THC. Mobilax its called I think. And CBD are use to block THC and other drug addictions. CBD of course you will find in cannabis. I see they are not going to answer those questions but for treatment of cannabis addiction is done by psychiatrists and psychologists and GP's. Heroin and alcohol is treated by psychiatrists, psychologists, GP's and doctors of internal medicine for the somatic systems of addiction. So you see cannabis dependence is psychological.