Did Joubert feel the pressure?

[Dan54]

I have to laugh at Scarfie on this, ok I have been nice and quiet and not replied on this thread, but lets get something right. I have spoken to and read comments by a lot of people that have went to WC, and all except a couple had a brillant time, and thought kiwis were great hosts. hell even Marto the king of anti kiwi trolls is saying best WC he had attended. I realise it is not in a lot of Aussies interest in the cup being successful as ARU were quite boastful of fact that they preferred it to be held elsewhere. Unfortunately as someone who has wallabies as his second team it meant I couldn't bring myself to support them during this WC, which is main reason I believe that a lot of kiwis did not support them, but now it over I back to where I was as Wallabies my 2nd team. Why the hell would we have little man resentment of Wallabies?? Have you checked results of the 2 teams over the years?? I do know in NZ as the main game we probably do have a reasonable number of Bogans follow the game, I will put up with that knowing that Rugby is the best game in the world in my opinion, and if a huge number of kiwis follow it, well maybe that says something about the good choices the kiwis make in sport, or perhaps you think the game should be more or less limited to private schools like here to keep the riff raff out. I take it you are Australian Scarfie, so maybe there are some bogans over here sneaking in the game perhaps??

 

[Muttonbird]

I thought it was obstruction - which I'm not sure is very legendary.

Edit: I've just watched it again and I'm sure of it, 5 and 8 in front of woodcock, blocking defenders.

The gap was 7 metres wide and I didn't see any man in black drag those defenders apart to make that gap, the French got there all on their own.

With that I'll finish on this thread as forum rules state one is only allowed one or two shots at defending the All Blacks against deluded attacks (this time under the guise of critcisms of Joubert) before being censured.

 

[Ruggo]

Let it go fellas.

 

[Dan54]

Hey changing the subject Ruggo, one of my mates at rugby club I think played for Darwin Crocs will have to check, I know they have get together at a test in Brissy every year.

 

[Ruggo]

Hey changing the subject Ruggo, one of my mates at rugby club I think played for Darwin Crocs will have to check, I know they have get together at a test in Brissy every year.

Holy shit it's a small world. Some of the older boys at the club have a reunion each year at a brisbane test. Would you mind PM ing his name to me. There is every chance I might know him.

Cheers

 

[Gnostic]

Interesting article on refereeing written by a couple of sports scientists who happen to be strength and conditioning coaches for the saffer sevens side.
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/10/rugby-world-cup-ref-debate.html
The site is more focussed on running and has great analysis of the tour de france, but there is the occasional rugby pearl....

This is a great article. I said two years ago after the Italy V NZ debacle that Obrien was failing the referees. If anything evidence since then has only reinforced this position. As so many here have posted the problems of Lawrence and Joubert in the respective matches they refereed was nothing new for either official, they regularly perform in such a manner. My question 2 years ago was whatever the developmental and support systems Obrien had/has in place to mentor and develop the top refs is clearly not sufficient. As the article states Rugby is fast approaching a crisis of credibility, and nothing highlights that fact more that the continued arguments and in some cases spite in this thread. That both sides have points of FACT to support their arguments proves the credibility crisis. More and more games are being decided by the referee, and it is disingenuous to suggest that a team should be good enough to take the referee out of the equation when the margins of difference at test level are getting smaller and smaller. I count two games in this RWC that the referee without doubt decided and both were crucial to the overall outcome of the competition in they decided who would contend the final. 1. Wales V SA. 2. Aust. V SA. Apart from those games the tournament was littered with sub standard refereeing and worse huge inconsistency.

I say again the referees chosen were in fact the best in the world (excepting the wrong Lawrence chosen), but they have been let down by poor support. Also to some degree the IRB's lack of leadership and real authority regarding the ELVs have done nothing but confuse the breakdown.

Lets park the bullshit of blaming the referee, and focus instead on fixing the systems that have obviously failed and simplify the Laws regarding the Scrum and Breakdown to remove the ambiguity and subjectivity. Without it the game is in danger of having every result questioned and validly so.

 

[mark_s]

So after rereading the 13 pages on this, I am starting to thing that Joubert just might have felt a little bit of pressure on referring his first RWC final. Of course the All Black and French players and coaches played pressure free and error free rugby for the whole of the RWC final, and as a result its only the ref's possible mistakes that need to be dwelled upon. Futhermore, every ref mistake is worth a certain 3 (or more) points to the final score line, whereas every player and coaching mistake had absolutely no impact on the final scoreline. Finally, despite the All Blacks being the best rugby team for the vast majority of the last 8 years, a few weeks in 2007 obviously excluded, NZ'ers should be greatly appreciative of the fundamental flaw in their victory, actually no they should completely discount their victory in the 2011 RWC final because it is possible to find valid fault in Joubert's referring on the final.

 

[teach]

....Finally, despite the All Blacks being the best rugby team for the vast majority of the last 8 years, a few weeks in 2007 obviously excluded, NZ'ers should be greatly appreciative of the fundamental flaw in their victory, actually no they should completely discount their victory in the 2011 RWC final because it is possible to find valid fault in Joubert's referring on the final.

I think we should replay the whole thing again next year.

Of course each team will only be allowed to field their original squads and have the same coaching staff. Let's do it!

 

[PaarlBok]

The reason why I have an obsession with ref bashers, in fact I swear on them and hate them with a passion because this is what happen when players, coaches, supporters keep on going with ref crictics and something I dont want to see in rugby

Sport24

Lawrence 'scared' of Bok fans
Wellington - New Zealand rugby referee Bryce Lawrence on Wednesday said he won't officiate in South Africa if he fears for his safety after his performance at last month's Rugby World Cup quarter-final between the Springboks and Australia.

Lawrence's control of the October 9 quarter-final, won 11-9 by Australia to end South Africa' reign as world champion, was strongly criticised by Springboks players, coaching staff and fans.

Retiring Springboks captain John Smit said "the one positive (of retirement) is that I won't ever have to be reffed by him again" and a South African fan began a Facebook campaign entitled "Petition To Stop Bryce Lawrence Ever Reffing A Rugby Game Again."

"I'm not totally concerned," Lawrence told Radio Sport. "I know a lot of other people like the New Zealand Rugby Union and SANZAR do have some serious concerns.

"In all honesty I'm not going to go over there if there's any personal threat or I have concerns about my safety because in the end it's a job, I know that, and also it's just a sport so I'm not going to put myself at risk."

Lawrence said he had thought about his performance in the quarter-final every day since the match and accepts he made errors.

"My quarter-final performance created a lot of negative reaction in South Africa, pretty hostile, very personal, very harsh," he said. "Also, on the flipside of that, I got a lot of really strong positive support from rugby people in New Zealand and around the world who probably know me a little bit more than the people in South Africa and were feeling for me during that time.

"... I was disappointed with some aspects in my own performance that day after refereeing four really pretty strong games in pool play. I'm not blaming anyone for the quarterfinal refereeing display apart from myself. I didn't referee as well as I could."

Lawrence said he recognised he would be punished for his performance.

"Look there has been some pretty clear consequences from my quarter-final display," he said. "I'm not going to be refereeing Six Nations next year.

"They can say that means I'm rested but in reality I accept that one of the consequences of my performance is that I'm not going to be doing Six Nations."

If I can give him sound advise, dont come near SA its simply not worth the while.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

It's their loss. A lot of people don't like Bryce, but kicking him out only leaves you with a referee ranked lower than him.

 

[whatty]

referee ranked lower than him.

There are some??

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

There are some??

Well, he is ahead of everyone on the reserve panel for super refs. (I'm pretty sure these are the guys that step up when someone can't do a game).

Stuart Berry (SA), Mike Fraser (NZ), Angus Gardner (AUS), Glen Jackson (NZ), Andrew Lees, (AUS) Ian Smith (AUS), Lourens van der Merwe (SA) & Jonathon White (NZ)

And I'd guess he ranks somewhere near the middle of the main referee panel.