Election 2010

[RedsHappy]

Other than that, it comes down to the very reasonable argument between a social-democratic system and a free-market system. For me, the evidence is overwhelming that a social-democratic system will produce a better society than a free-market one. I've been to America quite a lot and I regard it as a failed society. Anyway, this is a pretty fundamental disagreement, and I'm not about to budge and no doubt neither are you.

Scarf - very interesting and relevant set of points IMO. I agree 100% re America, and I've been there over 300 times. BUT, and I offer this, a real complexity of the whole American situation is that a lot of Americans of all incomes kind of want it that way in that their core cultural foundation contains a strong social Darwinian streak that it's somehow right that the strong compete hard and (theoretically) become rich and and the weak and ill-motivated will remain so (as they're not striving or able to strive well enough) and should not be much indulged by a social-democratic mindset. My point is that we cannot detach the whole issue of 'better' governmental model from the cultural foundations that drive preferences and social ideologies within the country whose government format and ways we are assessing.

Australian cultural and social evolution, being hugely different from America's, has never possessed a strong underlying faith in social Darwinism. In fact, most Australians distrust such a notion. IMO, thank goodness, as that's one of the core reasons we've developed a better system of government in this country and, inter alia, why we have a greater degree of social cohesion and harmony than exists today in America.

 

[Scotty]

I think we must be talking across each other, because to me this statement is very strange. Maybe you are loading the expression 'look after' with implied socialism.

Other than that, it comes down to the very reasonable argument between a social-democratic system and a free-market system. For me, the evidence is overwhelming that a social-democratic system will produce a better society than a free-market one. I've been to America quite a lot and I regard it as a failed society. Anyway, this is a pretty fundamental disagreement, and I'm not about to budge and no doubt neither are you.

I'm not proposing a free market system at all, in fact I quite like where Australia sits at the moment. When I say 'look after' I mean making individual's decisions for them. This is what I oppose.

 

[Scotty]

You won't find me agreeing with the Greens much, but I totally agree with their assessment of Gillard's do nothing and talk a lot approach. Wong comes and says it is about getting bipartisan support due to huge community support, but is just about testing the waters in the community on this issue, and not acting if the water is cold.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-senate-campaign/story-fn59niix-1225896020815

 

[Rob42]

You won't find me agreeing with the Greens much, but I totally agree with their assessment of Gillard's do nothing and talk a lot approach. Wong comes and says it is about getting bipartisan support due to huge community support, but is just about testing the waters in the community on this issue, and not acting if the water is cold.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-senate-campaign/story-fn59niix-1225896020815

Actually, for all the talk that Kevin's gone, things have changed - they haven't really. Kevin's first 18 months of government were all about 20/20 summits, announcing reviews, consultation processes, etc. Maybe it wasn't all Kevin's idea to run things that way...

 

[Scotty]

Here is a quote from a friend that is a traditional Labor supporter, seems to reflect most on this site's views (although most aren't quite willing to admit the Labor part):

Nice analogy - I would vote for Turnbull if he was in the race as well.. at least he is willing to look beyond focus groups
Labor doesn't deserve a second tern - Coalition hasn't convinced me they are ready to govern....ordinary

My analogy he refers to was:

Turnbull will do me thanks.

These two current ones are both so defensive it is ridiculous. It is going to be like watching England and Holland play a nil all draw.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I will admit to having a bit of soft spot for Turnbull. I thought he was one of the better leaders that the Libs have had for a while. He has also been on my preferred side of debates around censorship (i.e. the Spycatcher trial when he was a lawyer) and the republic, as well as being a fairly self-made bloke (something that I tend to admire).

 

[Ruggo]

Well, I was raised on a farm, rugby player, private school and university educated, small business owner and I haven't got a fucking clue who to vote for in this election. The Liberals are patently not ready to be returned to government (when oh when will they jettison the old dead wood of Bronnie Bishop, Ruddock and Tuckey?) as I don't want ANY remants of Howard's petty unimaginative insomnia to be revisited while the bully-boy tactics of the union heavies rolling KRudd offends me. But what he did trying to put his stamp on Australia far too quickly with the deadly insulation rollout, the disastrous school building project and the "green loans" fiasco smacks of a Whitlamesque "I know better" arrogance. The standard of government in Canberra is quickly heading the way of that in Sydney.

Labor tries to do things too quickly. The ideas are great but they always rush the execution. The home insulation is one. Did anybody have the bloody common sense to make it manditory for a sparky to inspect homes before it went in. Old house = old wiring. It is not rocket science. I understand the need to inject the money into the economy quickly but another way money could of been injected into the economy quickly through the construction industry could of been a scheme to remove asbestos from public buildings. The scope of the workmanship would of only been limited to proffessionals.

The problem with the coalition is they will do nothing and Abbott is nothing short of a snake oil salesman.

To steal a quote from the great John Lennon "strange days indeed".

 

[Aussie D]

Did anyone watch the debate last night? On radio this morning they were talking about Julia's hand gestures and saying Abbott had a minor points victory over her but were talking about the Wendy worm favouring Julia. I have a new driving game in my electorate - spot the electoral poster as only the labour guy has put posters up.

 

[Reddy!]

I watched some of the debate. Politics really does seems a bit childish at times and I wish they would stop dumbing down their salesman talk like they think most votes don't have a brain.

But anyway, Gillard showed her inexperience. We don't need another inexperienced prime minister.

 

[Moses]

I watched enough of it to get frustrated.

When Gillard talks, words come out. She spends so much effort putting fluff around her point it's hard to concentrate long enough to pick out the point she's making.

Tony wastes a lot of time on non-issues, which seems to be the strategy for this election. He scored some decent points on Labor changing the leader but being the same bunch of incompetent oafs who've made more mistakes in 3 years than the last Libs made in 11. I liked the comparison to NSW/QLD state governments too.

 

[Scotty]

They both just talked about the same stuff they have the last few weeks. Looked like more of a marketing exercise than a real debate.

I tuned out a bit as well.

Got to worry about the amount positive response by those worm operators. No wonder these types of politicians get elected if they can pull the wool over the public's eyes so easily.

 

[barbarian]

The debate was just a contest to see who could be least controversial and not make the news. No insults, no mistakes, no serious discussion of anything. Just a long stream of focus group-tested lines and meaningless slogans. Add a few irrelevant statistics and there you have it.

I have lost all interest in this election. Both are so desperate not to stuff up they are just saying nothing of interest to anyone. And because of the economy you dont even get the outlandish promises which, say what you want, keep it interesting. The only half-decent piece of news lately was that Liberal candidate for Chifley being given the arse for being a muslim-hating bigot. And maybe they couldn't find a seat in parliament he would actually fit into. Seriously, look at this guys arse ( http://www.smh.com.au/federal-elect...ral-candidate-20100726-10rqy.html?autostart=1 ).

 

[Lindommer]

I have lost all interest in this election.

+1. But on my my part I don't think I had any interest to lose in the first place. This would have to be the most "nothing" election in my living memory. No GST, no tired long-term government to be thrown out, no offensive prick to be brought down a peg or two, nothing.

 

[DPK]

Big issues as I see it are Internet Filters, asylum seekers and the environment.

I only have a real interest in one of those. Guess which!

I'll probably end up voting for whoever promises the fastest internet.

 

[AIDAN]

Big issues as I see it are Internet Filters, asylum seekers and the environment.

I only have a real interest in one of those. Guess which!

I'll probably end up voting for whoever promises the fastest internet.

Spot On!

 

[Moses]

Issues important to me are trying to get some sort of value for the investment government are making on our behalf. I don't need nor want to be bribed to vote, I'd rather a fiscally responsible government spending wisely improving the quality of life to all Australians.

I'm against means testing of benefits. We are already means tested when paying tax due to the marginal scale, if that isn't working then increase the margins and be upfront about the tax we pay. I believe there are far too many handouts, and it shits me that due to a recent 5k payrise I'll now miss the 5k baby bonus, and while I'm considering paying extra super to still qualify (will this even work?) I shouldn't have to. If they're trying to incentivise people to have families then incentivise all Australians, including the ones who can afford to have a family. If you're earning a combined income of 150k you'll pay back the 5k and much more in that single year, but I guarantee you the money would still come in handy when fitting out a babies' room.

While I don't have any hard facts to support this, I suspect that asylum seekers is a petty issue and is more about promoting xenophobic fears to persuade voters to switch. I suspect we spend a hell of a lot more money detaining and in Labor's case refusing to process these refugees than is smart or clever. I don't see why we should pay a foreign government to hold them when we're not exactly running out of space ourselves. Do we not have islands or fences good enough to contain refugees in Australia?

I'd like to see the role of State Government's severely reduced and eventually given the arse, incompetent bunch of oxygen thieves.

I'd like to see civil liberties strengthened, freedom of information liberalised, and a sensible approach to censorship. Politicians with a clue about technology, rather than, to quote Mark Newton: 'A merry parade of politicians who would be lynched if they didn’t know the difference between interest rates and inflation rates, who see no shame in confusing “megabits per second” with “megabytes.”

 

[RugbyFuture]

Id like to see beuraucracy reduced, large (and smart) infrastructure investments with regards to urban development and spreading immigration to some of the cities other than sydney. a willingness to listen to the experts rather than adjust their findings etc to suit their needs. greater school support (in private sector too) encouragement of big events and investment within australia, greater australian profile internationally, no internet censorship, greater inter government communication and cooperation.

basically a sensible government, but that won't happen.

i'd also like to see a responsible opposition who doesnt just object to everything for the sake of it.

and a balanced senate, with a mind open to both sides, with no extreme policies.

 

[RugbyFuture]

oh and more responsible free trade agreements and balancing out the cost of living in australia

 

[RugbyFuture]

basically a government who are responsible, but thats not gonna happen

 

[Scotty]

So we have the following areas of interest:

Faster internet - Labor
No internet censorship - Coalition
No means testing - Coalition
Greater school support - probably Labor
Government communication - neither
Balancing cost of living - neither
Bureaucracy reduced - Coalition