England v NZ & Aust 2015

[Braveheart81]

One observation: I suspect Clarke's caught a severe dose of the Brearleys, the player's not as effective for his team as the captain. Never mind, his leadership's improving with age and he can't do much better than this test.

He should move back down to 5 in the batting order. It's clearly psychological but he averages over 60 at 5 and around 30 at 4.

His average improved when he was given the captaincy. I don't think there are any issues with that, more his place in the batting order.

 

[No4918]

That's probably a good idea. With Smith and Warner, and hopefully Rogers, now set in the top order there isn't the need to have him so high. The middle order is now relatively weaker with Voges-Marsh-Neville/Haddin inexperienced or out of form.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'd agree with that BH. Clarke plays better at 5 and while his body is still up to it I'd like to see him drop down the order.

 

[Lindommer]

You lot must've heard me rabbitting on to my wife (a staunch cricket fan) about this exact point when we motored up to Katoomba on Saturday to frolic in the snow. Ian Chappell was a great one for moving a batsman up, and down, the batting order during his career according to his form/experience/reflexes, etc. Yes, Clarke should consider dropping down to 5, it certainly wouldn't do his current average any harm. A couple more decent scores during his last few years would be very handy.

 

[light]

Fairly interesting that the Edgbaston wicket looks an absolute spinners paradise. Heard during the Lords test that former NZ-legspinner Patel took a 5 for during the week for county side Somerset.

Obviously we will wait and see how the wicket looks on day 1 but it really wouldn't surprise me if we went with two spinners. No idea which of the pace battery would be dropped in order to accomodate the extra spinner, maybe Starc? I can't see it being Hazlewood, Marsh, or Johnson.

As for the Haddin debate, for mine his batting over the last 12 months hasn't been anywhere near good enough to warrant being immediately re-selected. Neville's performance was fantastic so in my eyes there is no need to find room for Haddin yet.

If Rogers is unavailable, I'd bring in S.Marsh and keep the order as it is. The other left field option would be to have Ahmed replace Rogers and reshuffle the batting order with everyone going up one spot, Johnson is good enough to bat at 7 but I figure we don't have any obvious opening option.

IMO no need to upset the apple card by moving Clarke around however if all is going well early on, perhaps we could send Voges in at 4.

For the upcoming tour match I'd like to see our bowlers + Smith rested. Clarke & Voges also need more time in the middle.

For warm up game
S.Marsh
Warner
Clarke (C)
Voges
Watson
M.Marsh
Haddin
Cummins
Siddle
Lyon
Ahmed


For Edgbaston
Rogers (S.Marsh)
Warner
Smith
Clarke (C)
Voges
M.Marsh
Neville
Johnson
Starc (Ahmed)
Hazlewood
Lyon

 

[Quick Hands]

It will be interesting to see who plays in the match against Derbyshire on Thursday. Although if England keep preparing flat, sub-continental wickets, they run the risk of losing the toss and batting second. We saw where that road leads on the weekend.

 

[Train Without a Station]

S Marsh and Warner have scored 100s in the tour game with Watson and M Marsh scoring 50s. Voges scored 1.

I do wonder if Voges could be under pressure. He was excellent on debut but has now failed to replicate that. After his 130* he has scored only 20 runs per innings and has not passed 50 once.

With Marsh and Watson both performing much better with the blade in tour games where Voges has actually come into bat in pretty good positions I wonder if he could find his spot under pressure for the 3rd test, or if he fails to fire in the 3rd, in the 4th test.

 

[qwerty51]

Hmmm big call but Clarke might retire after the Ashes. He's clearly lost it. Must be the back.

 

[Pedrolicus]

If they win it would be a good time to go. Smith is a ready replacement at captain and he would have left the side stronger than when he inherited it.

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[Quick Hands]

We see now the inherent problem with bringing a 35 year old into the team as a debutant. What do you do when he has a run of failures? If he was 25 you might persevere, but how long do you stick with an old bloke. People are talking of dropping Clarke, but he has a lot more runs on the board literally and metephorically and he does bring something to the team as captain.

 

[Quick Hands]

S Marsh and Warner have scored 100s in the tour game with Watson and M Marsh scoring 50s. Voges scored 1.

I do wonder if Voges could be under pressure. He was excellent on debut but has now failed to replicate that. After his 130* he has scored only 20 runs per innings and has not passed 50 once.

With Marsh and Watson both performing much better with the blade in tour games where Voges has actually come into bat in pretty good positions I wonder if he could find his spot under pressure for the 3rd test, or if he fails to fire in the 3rd, in the 4th test.

It illustrates a point that I have been making for weeks. Sheffield Shield form and West Indies form need to be treated extremely cautiously.

He should be under pressure, but so should the blokes who picked him.

 

[Quick Hands]

.

IMO no need to upset the apple card by moving Clarke around however if all is going well early on, perhaps we could send Voges in at 4.

For the upcoming tour match I'd like to see our bowlers + Smith rested. Clarke & Voges also need more time in the middle.

If only the opposition would stop getting him out

 

[barbarian]

Jeez mate calm down, not sure why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about Voges. Not like he's failed horribly. Hard to judge what happened at Lords, given he came in at 3-400 in the first dig and didn't bat in the second.

He will live or die on his form, just like all other Aussie bats. Age doesn't really have much to do with it. With Shaun Marsh in form he might not be in for much longer. That doesn't make the selectors original decision any less justified IMO.
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[light]

But it's easier to knock the selectors when he's down on form. The Voges critics were silenced in the Windies, I'm surprised they are vocal again so quickly. Are there really better options we have to bat at 5? Who are they?

Hmmm big call but Clarke might retire after the Ashes. He's clearly lost it. Must be the back.

Exactly my thoughts. Everything he's done since our 5-0 whitewash last time around has been geared towards this series. I thought he may pull the pin after the world cup but I recall a few years ago he made it pretty clear that he much preferred the longer form of the game. It seems fitting he would bow out in the test arena where he established himself.

Personally, I think we've been carrying him since the South African tour last year. That innings he was battered by Steyn and Morkel pretty much illustrated how crocked his back was, the fact he went on to make a century speaks volumes of the guy. I think it was Warne that stated he believed Clarke to be the hardest working cricketer in Australia.

 

[Quick Hands]

Jeez mate calm down, not sure why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about Voges. Not like he's failed horribly. Hard to judge what happened at Lords, given he came in at 3-400 in the first dig and didn't bat in the second.

He will live or die on his form, just like all other Aussie bats. Age doesn't really have much to do with it. With Shaun Marsh in form he might not be in for much longer. That doesn't make the selectors original decision any less justified IMO.
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I'm perfectly calm. No bee in the bonnet, but I have questioned the selection from the start. I would have thought that coming in a 3/400 would be quite a good thing - you can play your natural game without the pressure of the scoreboard.

It's nothing personal against the guy, but you've got to ask yourself if a guy has been playing 1st class cricket for 12 or 13 years and never been picked in the national side during that period, there's probably a very good reason for that.

If he's picked in the next test (which I expect him to be), I hope he comes out and scores a century and plays a role in Australia winning the match.

 

[Quick Hands]

But it's easier to knock the selectors when he's down on form. The Voges critics were silenced in the Windies, I'm surprised they are vocal again so quickly.

The problem is that the West Indies are hopeless. The only series that they've won in the past 5 years have been against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Go have a look at their recent results against Aus, SAF, India & NZ: losses by an innings and 220 runs, 10 wickets, 9 wickets, 8 wickets 277 runs and on it goes. You can only rate players on how they perform against those 4 countries these days - sadly the West Indies aren't a test cricket power any more.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

You blokes could be right and Clarke might be steeling himself for one last Ashes triumph and it could be over. Sad if true, but what better way to go out and Smith is clearly ready to take up the reins.

 

[Quick Hands]

Clarke is clearly struggling at the moment, but he has made a significant contribution to the team over a few years now and also adds something in his captaincy role. At some point in the near future there will be a handover to Smith. I'd like to see Clarke at the very least go out as the captain of this winning Ashes team and hopefully with at least one century in the remaining tests. The pitches that are being prepared are pretty good for batting.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think there is pretty much always room to pick a form player from Shield cricket regardless of age as long as you're also willing to drop them pretty quickly when they lose form.

Voges can't have too many more chances because of his age but there was nothing wrong with selecting him in the first place.

Personally I think Clarke should move back down to 5 and hope that he rekindles his form there.

Assuming Rogers plays then this should be Voges last shot otherwise Shaun Marsh can have another crack. Let's not forget that Marsh isn't young and has had a bunch of opportunities.

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[Quick Hands]

Agree with your views on S Marsh - he's had plenty of chances and has never really looked like at test cricketer when faced with opposition of any quality.