Ewen McKenzie: Wallaby Coach

[Richo]

As an aside, I also think South Africa is much better now than they have been for years. They are looking like approaching the All Blacks, whereas we have slid back a bit. That has to be part of the issue here too -- we're playing against two teams that are clearly a step or two ahead -- and the Argies whose strength is exactly our weakest element.

Not that we're good. We're not. But the current context is highlighting those deficiencies more than would have been apparent two years ago.

 

[daz]

I'm not saying that McKenzie is a bad coach but as someone earlier said, I think he's beginning to understand how hard Deans' job was. You guys can poo-poo it all you like but Deans got this team up to 2nd in the world.maybe he wasn't the biggest thing wrong with the team.

I think there is quite a bit of truth in that, BR.

I don't think anyone ever said Robbie was a shit coach or a bad bloke. His record very clearly says otherwise and he has earned that respect.

However, I think that it is also true that after 5 years he had hit the wall at the Wallabies, for what-ever reason. Happens to all coaches at some point, unless your name is Alex Ferguson or, dare I say it, Graham Henry.

My point is that after 5 years of being conditioned to play a certain way, it takes longer than 2 months to replace that seamlessly.

Robbie always looked exhausted and red-eyed to me. Link still has that ahead of him!

 

[A mutterer]

giving link the benefit of the doubt for 12 months may be a bit of a stretch. i'd expect that a professional coach, coaching professional players, be able to produce some positive results in a much shorter time frame. the comparisons with chieka are pretty apt - while there's always next year for warratahs fans (but maybe next year is the one), at least there was visible improvement in some aspects, enough to actually warrant staying until the final whistle and being patient.

if link cannot instil some mongrel into the forwards and get the backs to start running forward in less than 12 months then i can't see why he should retain the job.

 

[I like to watch]

Comparisons with Cheika, should acknowledge he had a full off season drilling his team ween in week out.
Then they failed to deliver the new plan under game conditions for some time.
To be fair to Link,he had a month or so then got to try his new toy out on the best 2 sides in the world.
The problem,I have is there is not one style he is asking his players to deliver.
It appears from the outside to be totally reactive and inconsistent.

 

[RedsHappy]

As much as I am (like many of you) in deep depression at the state of Wallaby rugby at the moment, I must say that anyone calling for Link's head right now needs to have a cold shower and administer a self-delivered uppercut.

I'm sure there was a general hope that Link would come in, flick the magical switch that eluded RD and resurrect Oz rugby overnight. Clearly that didn't and couldn't happen.

Forget 2013 to a certain extent. After 5 years of Deans, this is a true transitional period and we need to give the man a bit of time to communicate his gameplan, identify his core squad and bring in his assistants before we pick at his carcass. We gave the same consideration (albeit begrudgingly) to both Foley and Cheika when they came in at the 11th hour at the Force and Tahs respectively.

As much as I hate seeing the boys get rolled week after week, I hope you agree we can't fault the effort.

My opinion is that if we are in the same position this time next year, by all means sharpen the knives.

I don't see many here calling for Link's head.

But a number of us are justifiably assessing what we see in actual, delivered terms re his coaching capability at Test level (5 Tests being a reasonable early database of coaching displays), choice of support staff, the good sense or otherwise of his public statements, rate of incremental improvement in Wallaby execution, etc.

(Whilst I was immensely impressed with what Link and McKay did for/with the Reds 2009-11, my own concerns re both these men post this career high point grew as I watched the relative competitive (and attacking) excellence of the Reds play slowly but surely deteriorate from mid-2012 to the end of the 2013 S15 season.)

 

[RedsHappy]

I think there is quite a bit of truth in that, BR.

I don't think anyone ever said Robbie was a shit coach or a bad bloke. His record very clearly says otherwise and he has earned that respect.

However, I think that it is also true that after 5 years he had hit the wall at the Wallabies, for what-ever reason. Happens to all coaches at some point, unless your name is Alex Ferguson or, dare I say it, Graham Henry.

My point is that after 5 years of being conditioned to play a certain way, it takes longer than 2 months to replace that seamlessly.

Robbie always looked exhausted and red-eyed to me. Link still has that ahead of him!

I won't get into the Robbie-remembered debate just yet, but what is so important in assessing relative coach improvements and achievements is looking at the state of competition in terms of where other teams were at in comparative periods and how well they were coached in those same periods, etc.

Contextually, history will show Link was indeed fortunate in some respects in that in 2011 all of the Force, the Brumbies, the Rebels, Tahs and Chiefs were in varying states of disarray both as teams, and, even more importantly, in terms of coaching capability. This negative status was to start to shift in 2012, and shifted decisively in 2013. Many S15 teams really improved (to varying degrees) in this period; the Reds clearly did not, or not enough in this post-2011 period , and so their relative competitive position declined.

Equally, IMO Deans enjoyed similar contextual good fortune from Bok-land in much of his coaching period in that during this time the Boks were principally coached by PdV. Even the most ardent Bok fans would agree that PdV was not the finest of Bok strategists or coaches to say the least.

Now Link must deal full-on with the major improvements that Meyer is clearly bringing to the Boks, they are playing at last a brand of dynamic rugby where their attacking backs are almost equaling the renown prowess of their forwards, and this is making them in aggregate far harder to beat or subdue. So the Wallaby-over-Bok challenge has gotten harder and will get harder still as I assess the Boks will continue to improve under Meyer.

 

[RedsHappy]

How does a guy who either hasn't been given the job yet or knows he is going to get it but is sworn to secrecy employ new assistant coaches (particularly when some of those candidates (i.e. Laurie Fisher) might be working directly for the guy competing for him for the Wallaby coaching job?

Link could have had many ideas in his head regarding coaches he'd like to work with and could have potentially sounded some out in very general terms (if I become Wallaby coach at some point in the future, would you like to come and work with me?) but doing much more than that would be difficult.

I also think that the process needs to be more transparent and official. Otherwise you risk the coach appointing the people he already knows and likes who could easily not be the best people for the job.

The biggest problem to me was the timing with which Link was appointed. There just wasn't enough lead time to make changes to the assistant coaches in an effective way.

OK, so somehow it is possible for Link to have rapidly assembled a virtually complete new coaching team at the Reds for late 2009/early 2010 very soon after joining the QRU, and urgently and immediately got J McKay into the Wallaby Attack Coach position within a few weeks of his Wallaby appointment, but somehow none of this rapid-fire action is possible for the crucial-to-success positions of set piece and defence coach at the Wallabies (and where in these latter positions btw the current Wallabies are clearly failing and badly so). These latter positions need 6 months to be assessed and potentially changed. Interesting theory.

 

[Rob42]

OK, so somehow it is possible for Link to have rapidly assembled a virtually complete new coaching team at the Reds for late 2009/early 2010 very soon after joining the QRU, and urgently and immediately got J McKay into the Wallaby Attack Coach position within a few weeks of his Wallaby appointment, but somehow none of this rapid-fire action is possible for the crucial-to-success positions of set piece and defence coach at the Wallabies (and where in these latter positions btw the current Wallabies are clearly failing and badly so). These latter positions need 6 months to be assessed and potentially changed. Interesting theory.

I wouldn't be surprised if the current assistant coaches at the Wallabies are contracted until the end of the year, and Pulver has simply said to Link that they can't be sacked and paid out. So he's stuck with them. I'd be very surprised if there's not a clean out at the end of the year.

 

[BPC]

Comparisons with Cheika, should acknowledge he had a full off season drilling his team ween in week out.
Then they failed to deliver the new plan under game conditions for some time.
To be fair to Link,he had a month or so then got to try his new toy out on the best 2 sides in the world.
The problem,I have is there is not one style he is asking his players to deliver.
It appears from the outside to be totally reactive and inconsistent.

True, but Cheika had a squad largely already determined by Foley's signings, whereas Link has the (supposed) cream of five Superugby teams to choose from.

 

[mark_s]

I said before the first TRC game that I would give link to the end of the EOYT (which is another 7 games from now) before passing judgment so I'll stick with that.

It is disappointing that we seem to have gone backwards in his first 5 games and our game plan seems to be all over the place.

 

[It is what it is]

Not r

Comparisons with Cheika, should acknowledge he had a full off season drilling his team ween in week out.
Then they failed to deliver the new plan under game conditions for some time.
To be fair to Link,he had a month or so then got to try his new toy out on the best 2 sides in the world.
The problem,I have is there is not one style he is asking his players to deliver.
It appears from the outside to be totally reactive and inconsistent.

Not really.
The Spring tour Wallabies (12 Waratahs) only returned to Waratah's training in the first week of January, and the Super Rugby season started some 5 weeks later.
That's 12 players from his starting team who he only had for that short time plus Folau who was new to rugby.
Yes he probably did have 2 of his team for the whole off season.

 

[fatprop]

Not r
Not really.
The Spring tour Wallabies (12 Waratahs) only returned to Waratah's training in the first week of January, and the Super Rugby season started some 5 weeks later.
That's 12 players from his starting team who he only had for that short time plus Folau who was new to rugby.
Yes he probably did have 2 of his team for the whole off season.

one of the positives of seeing them all dropped from the Wobs, Cheika will get a load much earlier

 

[boyo]

Link has to un-coach Deans' style of play before he can coach his style of play.

This is not apologism.

 

[Bullrush]

Link has to un-coach Deans' style of play before he can coach his style of play.

This is not apologism.

What rubbish. 'Un-coach'?!?!

Did Deans have to 'un-coach' players who came out of Super Rugby franchises? Does McKenzie still have to 'un-coach' them from those same franchises? Do Hansen and Meyer have the same problems?

What would there be to 'un-coach' about the scrums given Deans didn't coach under these rules?

 

[Viking]

Woah a 19 page thread. I think everyone needs to wait until the end of the year before we can judge McKenzie as a coach.

IMO, so far he hasn't improved anything yet but he hasn't had the time too.

Going forward I feel McKenzie's real Test will be the EOYT. If we don't see an improvement (at least in our attack) then I will start to question his coaching skills.

But right now he is on Neutral ground. I don't think we have gone backwards (from Dean's time), and in order to go forward we need a bit more time.

I would expect improvements soon though, as these are the top players in our nation. A loss to Argentina, or to be dominated by a Northern Hemisphere team will ring alarm bells. Losing to SA or NZ at this point in time is acceptable. Next year it will not.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[terry j]

we're all missing the important point here, how can we turn this to our advantage?

I mean, what are the current odds for the wobs in the RWC? A tenner now might reap huge dividends if link 'comes good', if not then it's only a tenner!

Gawd, think big boys

 

[boyo]

What rubbish. 'Un-coach'?!?!

Did Deans have to 'un-coach' players who came out of Super Rugby franchises? Does McKenzie still have to 'un-coach' them from those same franchises? Do Hansen and Meyer have the same problems?

What would there be to 'un-coach' about the scrums given Deans didn't coach under these rules?

It's not rubbish.

Every coach has their own style of play - it's called individuality.

Super Rugby coaching isn't the same as test-match coaching.

Invoking the scrum laws is a furphy.

 

[cyclopath]

Coaching different styles is one thing, but I reckon scrummaging, physicality at the breakdown and defensive alignment is not a styling issue, but meat and potatoes rugby. These guys should have some genetic embedding in this stuff.
Game plans, of course, are a different beast.

 

[It is what it is]

I think you've nailed it Cyclopath.
We want to see the right attitude, hunger and desire and scrummaging, physicality and defence are as much about these as is technique.
Sometimes watching the Wallabies is a bit like playing golf for me - I am a poor golfer but if I can belt one long drive or sink one tough putt, it's enough to get me back again.
I'm watching the Wallabies at the moment hanging out for one massive defensive hit, one sweeping backline movement with good hands and straight running lines, one enormous scrum. I got 2 out of 3 last Saturday to get me back again for some more.
Geez I want them to play well and start enjoying themselves.

 

[Dam0]

There are 7 more games to go for the Wallabies this year. If McKenzie wins 0 of these games then he should be sacked. Any other result and he should get another go next year.