Global Rapid Rugby

[Kpc]

On the forum Western Forse saw some posts. I will answer here.
1. European clubs rarely flew to the games in Krasnoyarsk not because of Russian visas. To play in Moscow or Sochi, they also needed to receive Russian visas. But they say about bad weather in Krasnoyarsk in November. But several teams were in Krasnoyarsk (Connacht, Bordeaux, Stade France and La Rochelle).
2. High cost. It is not true. One-way flight from Beijing to Krasnoyarsk 200 dollars. Add the cost of traveling from your city to Beijing.
3. The fall of the ruble exchange rate to foreign currencies twice. Plus for foreign teams in Russia, but a minus for Russian teams abroad. That is, for Australians, Japanese and all the others, hotel accommodation and other expenses in Krasnoyarsk will be two times cheaper than it was a few years ago. And for Russians, on the contrary, all spending abroad will be twice as expensive. But for the sake of Rapid Rugby, they are ready to incur additional costs.
Just compare expenses of Krasnoyarsk clubs for transport expenses with expenses of your team. For Russians, these expenses will be much more. But they do not cry about it. A similar situation was in the Challenge Cup.

 

[Kpc]

Absolutely similar arguments led the Europeans, so as not to fly once to Krasnoyarsk. I then, in the season 2016-17, calculated for them the distance that the Enisei-STM and Krasny Yar overcame that season. These are only matches in European competitions Challenge Cup and Continental Shield. In the championship of Russia, they also fly to all matches several thousand kilometers one way.

Enisei-STM (65000 km)

Cup Enisei 19-12 Worcester (Moscow)
Cup Enisei 38-18 Dragons (Krasnodar)
Cup Enisei 8-43 Brive (Sochi)
Cup Brive 38-18 Enisei (Brive)
Cup Dragons 34-10 Enisei (Newport)
Cup Worcester 57-14 Enisei (Worcester)
Shield Mogliano 0-46 Enisei (Mogliano)
Shield Enisei 51-7 Mogliano (Moscow)
Shield Enisei 36-8 Krasny Yar (Edinburgh)

Krasny Yar (41500 km)

Shield Krasny Yar 48-24 Mogliano (Moscow)
Shield Krasny Yar 32-5 El Salvador (Moscow)
Shield Heidelberger 21-50 Krasny Yar (Heidelberg)
Shield Rovigo 11-42 Krasny Yar (Rovigo)
Shield Krasny Yar 12-17 Timisoara (Rustavi)
Shield Timisoara 18-27 Krasny Yar (Timisoara)
Shield Enisei 36-8 Krasny Yar (Edinburgh)

 

[kiap]

And for Russians, on the contrary, all spending abroad will be twice as expensive. But for the sake of Rapid Rugby, they are ready to incur additional costs.

Absolutely similar arguments led the Europeans, so as not to fly once to Krasnoyarsk. I then, in the season 2016-17, calculated for them the distance that the Enisei-STM and Krasny Yar overcame that season. These are only matches in European competitions Challenge Cup and Continental Shield. In the championship of Russia, they also fly to all matches several thousand kilometers one way.

Enisei-STM (65000 km) … <snip> … Krasny Yar (41500 km)

First thing I'll say is the Rapid Rugby competition does not quite exist yet. It feels close, but all we have seen are 4 Showcase games so far this year and some exhibition matches in Perth last year. It has taken a lot of work to even get RR this far.

Things are being learnt even as these showcase games are being played and teams are coming together.

So who knows? There may (or may not) be a window for Krasnoyarsk teams to join Rapid Rugby. Perhaps in a scenario where there are sufficent teams to have different conferences, as mentioned earlier in this thread. Work and, critically, money has to be invested. IMO, Japan being on board would be needed to even consider that. We don't fully know what is happening in Japan, so I think it is not going to be easy.

That is just my opinion, of course. We are merely rugby fans on this forum. The decisions are made at another pay grade.

In the 2017 Super Rugby season, the Western Force travelled 68,000 km. So, yes, that distance is possible. It's not good - but it's possible.

However, we want something better than that. The game should learn from earlier mistakes.

I don't really want to see conferences. Particularly not in Year 1.

Possible future conferences?​

(Btw, it's hard to see this at startup … or even in a few short years … IMO)​

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​

 

[Kpc]

If there are many teams. There is an option without conferences, but playing as in Super Rugby with each opponent only 1 game.

 

[kiap]

If there are many teams. There is an option without conferences, but playing as in Super Rugby with each opponent only 1 game.

Super Rugby is a failed model. The distances are too far. Costs are high. Timezones wreck the schedule. Super Rugby tried expansion capriciously and then shrank back viciously.

The comp is subsidised by the respective unions who face a difficult future. The trendlines on Super Rugby are shrinking. It is losing money.

Rapid Rugby could go the same way, or it might buck the trend. I hope it succeeds, but that's not guaranteed.

Anyway, you're a fan of your teams playing in a potentially exciting and successful competition. I get that, and good luck.

Time for me get outta here, though. Adieu.

 

[Show-n-go]

I do get that point. To a limited extent.

It's a helluva long flight to anywhere except Fiji and Japan, tho.

(Not counting the US mainland which is their primary link)

I don’t think that’s reallllly true, I looked it up not sure if these are accurate but

Perth > Hawaii - 14 hours
Hong Kong > Hawaii - 11.5 hours

Compared to

Sydney > Cape Town - 18 hours
Auckland > Cape Town - 23.5 hours
Perth > Cape Town - 15.5 hours


Like I said previously the travel isn’t great to begin with but that’s the nature of having an international club competition. Having Hawaii in is a lot more viable from purely a geography/tv time slot perspective than having South Africa in super rugby

 

[kiap]

I looked it up not sure if these are accurate but

Perth > Hawaii - 14 hours

Thats's not accurate. There are are no direct flights. Add on between 2.5 hours to 7 hours to the travel time.

Even as the crow flys it's almost 11000 km - much the same as Sydney to Cape Town.

Sydney > Cape Town - 18 hours Nope
Auckland > Cape Town - 23.5 hours
Perth > Cape Town - 15.5 hours

Like I said previously the travel isn’t great to begin with but that’s the nature of having an international club competition.

Heheh. So every international comp needs to have 16 hour connecting flights now?

I'd want to cap the travel time at two-thirds that. Also have the east-west span under 90 degrees of longitude and with a margin to spare.

All those Cape Town journeys suck. They require connecting flights - yes, even from Perth.

Having Hawaii in is a lot more viable from purely a geography/tv time slot perspective than having South Africa in super rugby

Why even bother with this, though … should Sanzaar plop Hawaii into the Soup and let South Africa loose?

USA Rugby ain't gonna approve Hawaiian participation, for a start.

And it requires 30+ hours of teams sitting in an aluminium tube per game to play rugby in a non-rugby location with a population the size of Adelaide.

In fact, you'd be better off expanding to Adelaide.

 

[Show-n-go]

Thats's not accurate. There are are no direct flights. Add on between 2.5 hours to 7 hours to the transit.

Even as the crow flys it's almost 11000 km - much the same as Sydney to Cape Town.


Heheh. So every international comp needs to have 16 hour connecting flights now?

I'd want to cap the travel time at two-thirds that. Also have the east-west span under 90 degrees of longitude and with a margin to spare.

All those Cape Town journeys suck. They require connecting flights - yes, even from Perth.


Why even bother with this, though … should Sanzaar should plop Hawaii into the Soup and let South Africa loose?

USA Rugby ain't gonna approve Hawaiian participation, for a start.

And it requires 30+ hours of teams sitting in an aluminium tube per game to play rugby in a non-rugby location with a population the size of Adelaide.

In fact, you'd be better off expanding to Adelaide.

Mate no need to get triggered

Just chucked the destinations in google and that’s what came up

 

[kiap]

It's all a bit 'o fun, man. No actual business decisions were harmed in the making of this thread.

Srsly tho, what about Adelaide? Put 'em in the soup.

 

[zer0]

I'd hope that RA and NZR would veto that on the grounds that Adelaide is, in fact, Adelaide. We've already got Canberra and the Tron. No need to further compound everyone's misery.

 

[The Honey Badger]

The distance to these kind of places needs to be kept in mind. Otherwise the errors of Super Rugby happen again.

View attachment 10620

If you take a look at the current sorta scope of Rapid Rugby, it's geographically stretched already.

IThey have (rightly) excluded teams playing out of South Africa,

I was in WA over Easter. Went out for dinner and a few sherberts on Friday and Saturday night. Got back to the lodgings around 10:00 pm and tuned straight into live games in SA. Saw both the Reds and the Brums get up.

Daytime games in SA work for WA.

If the Force (WA) is the centre of GRR, then SA should be considered.

French Réunion could be another possibility. Rugby is played there. Population around 1 Million, and France good at privately funded teams. Same distance to Réunion as to Auckland.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The issue surely would be the distance between SA and the Eastern most teams, say Fiji?

 

[Rebels3]

The KISS principal generally works best in business, this applies to rugby competitions as well. Including SA ignores this just like it does in Super Rugby. Let’s keep the layouts of the competition simple.

 

[Strewthcobber]

The KISS principal generally works best in business, this applies to rugby competitions as well. Including SA ignores this just like it does in Super Rugby. Let’s keep the layouts of the competition simple.

Stuff that. A trip to Reunion Islands for a match sounds awesome!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The KISS principal generally works best in business, this applies to rugby competitions as well. Including SA ignores this just like it does in Super Rugby. Let’s keep the layouts of the competition simple.

Yep. GRR is supposed to be set up to take advantage of friendly time zones for the markets it's looking to enter and it shouldn't veer away from that. If SA wants to get involved then they can do a Valke or the like in partnership with a local Union. But no teams based in SA. I'd rather see SA become a talent source rather than an active participants to be completely honest.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Stuff that. A trip to Reunion Islands for a match sounds awesome!

My son was recently there for 3 months. Played in Island comp. Said the standard was pretty good.

Main thing with Réunion, you cannot swim in the ocean. All beaches are closed. Sharks are everywhere. Otherwise a pretty amazing place.

 

[The Honey Badger]

The KISS principal generally works best in business, this applies to rugby competitions as well. Including SA ignores this just like it does in Super Rugby. Let’s keep the layouts of the competition simple.

Nothing about GRR is Simple.

Starting a comp with new teams in new markets that will be at a much lower level to Super Rugby (the previous level the Force were at).

SA provide the standard and apparently the $$$ in broadcast deals.

All I am saying is WA and SA timezones are compatible, at least with daytime games.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Nothing about GRR is Simple.

Starting a comp with new teams in new markets that will be at a much lower level to Super Rugby (the previous level the Force were at).

SA provide the standard and apparently the $$$ in broadcast deals.

All I am saying is WA and SA timezones are compatible, at least with daytime games.

But the other time zones featuring the other teams aren't. While saving the Force may have been the original intent behind the competition there are other parties in play now and their interests matter just as much as the Force and Rugby in WA. Otherwise, why not just have Forrest help out via his massive financial resources to have the Force participate in the SuperSport Challenge Cup and Currie Cup?

As for keeping it simple. That comes down to keeping it's spread simple in regards to time zones and structure. SA complicates these. If they want in then again get them to look at partnering with a more friendly Union to help make it happen. But no actual SA based teams. They already have 6 of them and the quality of two of them is under a fair bit of scrutiny by Pro14 fans.

 

[The Honey Badger]

There is going to be time zone and travel time issues for both Sup and GRR. Our geographic isolation will ensure it.

Now the Russians want in.

I guess once you put the word "Global" in your name anything is possible.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

There is going to be time zone and travel time issues for both Sup and GRR. Our geographic isolation will ensure it.

Now the Russians want in.

I guess once you put the word "Global" in your name anything is possible.

No. A Russian poster suggested they'd be a good option. There's no one official suggesting they want in.