Has Woodencock been cited or not?
- Thread starter Chauncey
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M
Muttonbird
Guest
Pretty ugly but I don't think the intention was to injure.
What worries me as an NZ'er is the perception floating around that the AB's are getting a lot of "luck" at the moment. Perception is often as good as the truth, however, and if NZ is "lucky" right now it can only mean NZ will be "unlucky" at some other point...RWC2011 for instance? Or, have we had our "bad luck" at Cardiff in 2007?
Anyone good at Tarot Cards?
?? A Yellow card with a hare-lip?
Brumbies Guy
John Solomon (38)
MajorlyRagerly
Trevor Allan (34)
Muttonbird - that is exactly what all our opposition media wants, hence all the hype & talk.
Dunno how he didn't get carded myself & surprised he wasn't cited given all the hoop la over the last week. Anybody know who the citing officer was? Hope like fuck he wasn't a kiwi.
M
Muttonbird
Guest
This from Blogspotrugby.com...
"The Citing Commissioners and the back-up commissioners (in brackets) are:
■South Africa: Freek Burger (Andy Prior)
■Australia: Scott Nowland (Dick Byres)
■New Zealand: Steve Hinds (Mike O’Leary)
The Citing Commissioners will have weekly teleconferences to ensure a standardised approach.
The Citing Commissioners are mandated to consult with the other two on any incidents they feel should be considered, however it is the sole responsibility of the citing commissioner in the match host country to decide whether to cite or not.
Citings are required to be made within 12 hours.
The Judicial process remains unchanged. SANZAR will appoint independent Judicial Officers to hear citing complaints on a case-by-case basis.
Issued by SANZAR Communications"
So it looks to me the citing commissioner is...Steve Hinds (NZ).
Jnor
Peter Fenwicke (45)
I was in the same boat as you, Groucho, and I guess many others here. Now, after watching that again, I find it completely laughable that there was no citing for this. I can almost understand no YC a) because it's Kaplan and b) because mistakes happen in referreeing regardless of the bloke with the whistle.
Surely the point of the citing/judiciary system is to ensure that tehre is further sanction applied to on-field indiscretions and also to act as a back-up when the in-game officiating fails. So the only conlcusion I can come to here makes me a 'clown' given the precedent set in YC's and suspensions in the earlier matches this year. How this isn't worse than either of Shmoo's, QC (Quade Cooper)'s or Fourie's offences I don't know.
Now it's really starting to piss me off.
Surely the point of the citing/judiciary system is to ensure that tehre is further sanction applied to on-field indiscretions and also to act as a back-up when the in-game officiating fails. So the only conlcusion I can come to here makes me a 'clown' given the precedent set in YC's and suspensions in the earlier matches this year. How this isn't worse than either of Shmoo's, QC (Quade Cooper)'s or Fourie's offences I don't know.
Now it's really starting to piss me off.
naza
Alan Cameron (40)
Finger the ruck lingerer !
I thought the Dean Mumm wasn't bad at all. It was a legitimate cleanout on a piss taker who had no right to be there, just desserts I called it at the time. A bit different to Woodcock who belted a player on his knees getting up off the ground FFS.
MajorlyRagerly
Trevor Allan (34)
Erm, at the risk of being controversial here (why change the habit of a lifetime), it doesn't look as bad as I thought it did originally so can see why not cited.
Stupid move by Woodcock, but hardly as dangerous as I originally thought, Woodcock actually stops before he hits him. And if I was going to be completely one eyed, I'd even say Finger seems ok after the hit & then turns around, notices he has the penalty & Kaplan is looking then suddenly seems to be in a lot of pain.
Yellow Card - definately. Red card offence - definately not. And the citing procedure states must be red card offence, therefore the correct decision has been made by the laws of the game
(Make no mistake, I dont' agree with that, but the laws have been followed here).
Stupid move by Woodcock, but hardly as dangerous as I originally thought, Woodcock actually stops before he hits him. And if I was going to be completely one eyed, I'd even say Finger seems ok after the hit & then turns around, notices he has the penalty & Kaplan is looking then suddenly seems to be in a lot of pain.
Yellow Card - definately. Red card offence - definately not. And the citing procedure states must be red card offence, therefore the correct decision has been made by the laws of the game
(Make no mistake, I dont' agree with that, but the laws have been followed here).
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
It was reckless and unecessary. It's not about how much damage an action inflicts, it's about the action itself.
If he had hit him 5cm higher on the neck Finger may have left the field injured. Would that then make it a citing offense?
DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
Unfortuantley, I agree that it doesn't look as bad now as it did watching the game live.
Just out of interest, what was the reaction of the stoooopid Foxsports "commentators"?
MajorlyRagerly
Trevor Allan (34)
Blue - I'm not disagreeing with any of that, however if Finger did indeed have the ball, the tackle would be perfectly legit. If it had been 5cm higher, yep, could have been much more dangerous, but it wasn't - if my aunty had bollocks, she'd be my uncle etc etc.
DPK - I had the kiwi commentary (on australia network) so couldn't tell you, but given Marshall's reaction, I could probably hazard a decent guess.
DPK - I had the kiwi commentary (on australia network) so couldn't tell you, but given Marshall's reaction, I could probably hazard a decent guess.
JJJ
Vay Wilson (31)
Have to agree with MR, unfortunately. Not as bad as I first thought, though still clearly worth a yellow. I'm sure Paddy had a few not-that-serious words with Kaplan afterwards. Maybe something like "Yeah, I know I told you not to give out any yellow cards for that game unless they were red, but that probably should've been one. Good game though. Gee those ABs are good aren't they?"
yeah, Woodcock stops. To line him up. He runs in from 10ms away, stops just before to drop his shoulder just so he can hit Saia Fainga'a with the point of it. Definite yellow and definite suspension.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
That looks bad enough for a suspension to me. Not a nine week head butting style, but the action was dangerous and could have done some real damage. As much as I love the tough stuff in our game, I don't like seeing stuff like that.
H
Harfish
Guest
If the law doesn't allow for the citing of a yellow card offense post game then the law is an ass and needs to be changed. I fail to see how Quade gets two weeks and Fourie four after being yellow carded on the field, but Woodcock gets off because of referee inaction on the field.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Yes but if the Finger had the ball he would be expecting to be tackled and likely anticipating the hit. Being tackled without the ball is inherently more dangerous.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Does anyone actually think that if it was someone like Bakkies that had done it that he would have got off? It is astounding that it hasn't been cited.
Eyes and Ears
Bob Davidson (42)
IMO he should have been yellow carded but not cited or suspended - this would be an over-reaction and would create a difficult precedent for other illegal clean-outs (although I will acknowledge that this was not an attempted clean-out).
I don't understand why more people aren't saying that he should have been red-carded if you think he should be supsended for 2-4 weeks. I also don't think that you can compare this incident to spear tackles. The IRB/SANZAR have had a clear approach for many seasons to attempt to eradciate these types of tackles because of the potential for serious neck and head injuries. These types of injuries reflect poorly on our game and put further pressure on the de-powering of the scrum, where most neck injuries are believed to occur.
Also the referees and the judiciary are different entities with slightly different approaches. (btw POB is not responsible for the citing process and judiciary as well as the referees). This difference is most obvious with spear tackles. The IRB/SANZAR have decided not to close this gap. Effectiely the powers that be think that the Quade/Fourie tackles should be red-carded but I don't think that they want teams penalised that heavily on the field. The referees are only prepared to red card the worst of the spear tackles and referee managament are OK with this. Therefore we have almost a quasi league system for spear tackles where the referee applies a penalty (and ususally YC) on the field and the judiciary review the tackle after the game and generally apply a suspension. Cooper's suspension was in line with many others over the course of the last few years (I believe Genia and Ionae amongst many others have been suspended previously). Unfortunately there have been other spear tackles that should have been dealt with.
Back to Woodward, I think it is more appropriate to compare this incident to Mumm and IMO neither should be suspended for their actions - YCs would be sufficient.
I don't understand why more people aren't saying that he should have been red-carded if you think he should be supsended for 2-4 weeks. I also don't think that you can compare this incident to spear tackles. The IRB/SANZAR have had a clear approach for many seasons to attempt to eradciate these types of tackles because of the potential for serious neck and head injuries. These types of injuries reflect poorly on our game and put further pressure on the de-powering of the scrum, where most neck injuries are believed to occur.
Also the referees and the judiciary are different entities with slightly different approaches. (btw POB is not responsible for the citing process and judiciary as well as the referees). This difference is most obvious with spear tackles. The IRB/SANZAR have decided not to close this gap. Effectiely the powers that be think that the Quade/Fourie tackles should be red-carded but I don't think that they want teams penalised that heavily on the field. The referees are only prepared to red card the worst of the spear tackles and referee managament are OK with this. Therefore we have almost a quasi league system for spear tackles where the referee applies a penalty (and ususally YC) on the field and the judiciary review the tackle after the game and generally apply a suspension. Cooper's suspension was in line with many others over the course of the last few years (I believe Genia and Ionae amongst many others have been suspended previously). Unfortunately there have been other spear tackles that should have been dealt with.
Back to Woodward, I think it is more appropriate to compare this incident to Mumm and IMO neither should be suspended for their actions - YCs would be sufficient.
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