How do you coach scrum improvement?

[Chris McCracken]

Chris Mc,

Re the issue of "doing weights" as a 15-17YO - IIRC - it seemed to be more of an issue with doing "unsupervised" weight training, possibly aiming at "improving" the "pretty boy" muscles etc.

Conclusion - (a personal observation, naturally) - it has a place - but only in a well controlled / supervised environment - and for the right reasons !

Cheers
The Hound

I appreciate that the messages could have been mixed across the different teams. However, I can assure you the message here was that weights are bad. I actually took it up in discussion with the S&C coach.

The program given to the boys backed that up.

I'm pleased to say that this year, they are encouraging well supervised strength routines.

And , also as a parent - as well as a S&C coach - that I agree the environment needs to be well controlled and supervised.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I appreciate that the messages could have been mixed across the different teams. However, I can assure you the message here was that weights are bad. I actually took it up in discussion with the S&C coach.

The program given to the boys backed that up.

I'm pleased to say that this year, they are encouraging well supervised strength routines.

And , also as a parent - as well as a S&C coach - that I agree the environment needs to be well controlled and supervised.

Just out of interest, does anyone know if there is any actual research into the injury outcomes of 15 to 17 year olds doing strength training for contact sports?

 

[Chris McCracken]

It's fairly well studied, but the evidence is so convoluted and there are so many studies of poor design that even the scientists have stopped arguing about it.

It's pretty well accepted that there is no need to avoid resistance training before skeletal maturity:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24393806

The NSCA in the US and the ASCA here both state that well designed and supervised resistance training is safe for adolescents. The NSCA position statement references 258 research articles if you want to have a look but it's an effort to read - even if you're heavily into this stuff.

http://www.maclay.org/cms/lib7/FL02.../Position Stand Youth Resistance Training.pdf

 

[LRB]

To answer the OP's question, when I was coaching a schoolboy team with the obligatory twice weekly training sessions. The Tuesday session would include opposed scrummaging for at a minimum half of the session. As preparation for live scrummaging I was constantly talking to the tight forwards about their position and also the flankers about the importance of their role in a dominant scrum.

I was fortunate at the school I coached their was a very strong South African influence, so I learned an inordinate amount from them with regards to scrummaging and general forward play. There was a book the late Dr Craven wrote that is still gold and I would recommend it.

The scrum machine can also be a great tool to work on timing and also look at the way the locks and the backrow are packing.

 

[formerflanker]

I wonder if the U19 bans on crutch binds and pushing past 1.5m have been reviewed or analysed? Players who grow up under those restrictions have to take some time to adjust. It also encourages coaches to convert flankers to props rather than developing the fat boys.

 

[LRB]

I have had questions over the long term impact of the amended binding rules for U 19's. My thought has always been that the squads from 15 A & B upwards should practice proper binding and have the 1.5 m rule either eliminated or amended. This would go some way in providing greater amount of scrummaging development / opportunities for front rowers.

The other question as well is the integration of former Wallabies / Super XV players / Club players to provide scrummaging clinics at schools or club levels. I know from personal experience with NZ that former AB's and Super XV players are always keen to drop in for a session or two.

 

[Brendan Hume]

I wonder if the U19 bans on crutch binds and pushing past 1.5m have been reviewed or analysed? Players who grow up under those restrictions have to take some time to adjust.

I have had questions over the long term impact of the amended binding rules for U 19's.

The other question as well is the integration of former Wallabies / Super XV players / Club players to provide scrummaging clinics at schools or club levels. I know from personal experience with NZ that former AB's and Super XV players are always keen to drop in for a session or two.

Some of the U19 Law Variations were reviewed - I think in 2013. Changes were implemented to lifting for U19 lineouts (from U15 up IIRC). I don't think scrum laws were changed.

I'm not sure that the binding laws are a significant factor. I think there is a bit of malaise right through the Australian Rugby community when it comes to the importance of scrums in the game. Competitions usually allow a slack approach to competing at scrum time with teams getting out of jail free by saying they don't have trained front rows, etc. The state and national bodies need to implement such things as clinics if they want to develop forwards that can match it with the best. Introduce awards or have competitions for good packs. Talented players in the scrum exist, but they are too few and far between to provide the platform for adequate development - this is true at all levels of Australian rugby, and gets shown up by our national team.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^^ National Scrum Education Programme. That could be a good use for all that extra cash that will roll in from the new tax Participation Levy next year. Yeah right - Watch it disappear into consolidated revenue.

 

[Scrubber2050]

We need an Aussie mum to give birth to 8 kids bound at the hip.

However it may interfere with mobility around the park

 

[Brendan Hume]

However it may interfere with mobility around the park

I reckon she'd have some mobility issues after that as well...