Is it fair dinkum ?

[naza]

Are the refs being bribed ?

I've lost count of the number of test matches in which the All Blacks have gotten away with blatant cheating. There's pushing the line, there's cynicism and then there's Golly gosh! taking the piss. And what we're seeing the last couple of years, particularly in Aus-NZ tests, is that refs turn a blind eye to NZ's constant unmitigated illegal play. It cannot be an accident. Not when we get whistled for misdeameanours whilst nothing happens when All Blacks commit triple homicide to the rule book.

Its not like they are subtle about it - it has now become comical the degree to which referees are demonstrating bias. Which leaves us with no alternative explanation.

 

[PhucNgo]

Are the refs being bribed ?

I've lost count of the number of test matches in which the All Blacks have gotten away with blatant cheating. There's pushing the line, there's cynicism and then there's Golly gosh! taking the piss. And what we're seeing the last couple of years, particularly in Aus-NZ tests, is that refs turn a blind eye to NZ's constant unmitigated illegal play. It cannot be an accident. Not when we get whistled for misdeameanours whilst nothing happens when All Blacks commit triple homicide to the rule book.

Its not like they are subtle about it - it has now become comical the degree to which referees are demonstrating bias. Which leaves us with no alternative explanation.

G'day Naza,

I've just had a pretty good rant myself on this very subject. Mark Lawrence is continuing in the time honoured tradition of Tappa Hennig and Jonathan Kaplan. Are these guys dumb or blind? They need to choose one. Because something is definitely wrong. The AB's cheating has gone on all year. Thy must have looked at it on replay. What am i missing here? Are you actually allowed to blatantly waltz around into the back of the opposition ruck?I give up.

 

[naza]

Are the refs being bribed ?

I've lost count of the number of test matches in which the All Blacks have gotten away with blatant cheating. There's pushing the line, there's cynicism and then there's Golly gosh! taking the piss. And what we're seeing the last couple of years, particularly in Aus-NZ tests, is that refs turn a blind eye to NZ's constant unmitigated illegal play. It cannot be an accident. Not when we get whistled for misdeameanours whilst nothing happens when All Blacks commit triple homicide to the rule book.

Its not like they are subtle about it - it has now become comical the degree to which referees are demonstrating bias. Which leaves us with no alternative explanation.

G'day Naza,

I've just had a pretty good rant myself on this very subject. Mark Lawrence is continuing in the time honoured tradition of Tappa Hennig and Jonathan Kaplan. Are these guys dumb or blind? They need to choose one. Because something is definitely wrong. The AB's cheating has gone on all year. Thy must have looked at it on replay. What am i missing here? Are you actually allowed to blatantly waltz around into the back of the opposition ruck?I give up.

I've tried not to harp on about it too much in the past. But its beyond a joke. As Zeno eloquently posted - "outright bullshit".

I honestly can't see much of a future for me following rugby if this keeps up. This is some Murali level bullshit. I simply cannot take the sport seriously at the moment. I derive no pleasure from watching such a farce. Steam is starting to exit mine ears, such doth my blood boileth.

 

[Epi]

Fuck me. I actually agree with Naza.

 

[Blue]

You're all kidding right?

Lawrence has been one of the best going around. He had a great Super 14.

HE had a shit game tonight and admittedly should have nailed the ABs (I was screaming at the box when Mccaw was repeatedly killing the pill and Lawrence did nothing).

To suggest bribery is fucking hilarious (regardless whether the ref is from SA, NZ, AU or bloody Mars), but not at all unexpceted hysterics from whence it comes...

When South Africa had a shit run, our supporters were crying abotu the refs, so it's underatandable. But bribery? Too fucking hilararious.

Pass, catch, hit the rucks, and shows some intensity. That's what the Wallabies need to do and the ref has sweet bugger all to do with that.

There are at least five or six passengers in that starting fifteen.

Two locks that donlt show up
Palu doesn't show
TPN can't throw
Alexander has no impact at the breakdown or anywhere else but at the scrums
O'Connor is out of his depth
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is no 12



I know it's tough, believe me. For years the Boks sucked, and the cycle will go down again of that I have no doubt. But get real. The Wallabies seriously lack personnel in some areas.

 

[Scarfman]

Can't both be true?

I think we would have lost that game no matter who the ref was, because of all the reasons you stated, and more.

But I do feel that the AB's jerseys must be made out of the same stuff as the stealth bomber, because all year they have been allowed to tear up the rule book. I honestly feel that whatever is going on with the refs is a psychological phenomenon worthy of attention.

They play MILES offside at the breakdown.
They lie all over the ball under the Wallaby halfback's feet.
They pillar and obstruct all around the ruck.

It has gone well beyond a joke. Some ref needs to take a stand, and have the scales fall from the eyes.

 

[Blue]

Fully agree Scarf. The ABs get away with murder, game after game.

Somehow the refs show too much leniency.

If the ref doesn't deal with the belly flops and those hanging onto the ball they have to be cleaned out aggreisvely so they think about it twice. The Wallabies again elected not do this.

 

[Scorz]

Pretty much every fan of any team thinks the other team gets away with it more than their own. But if you guys want to believe NZ get away with more for any reason, far be it from me to reduce the perceived aura...

 

[Pfitzy]

Blue has a great point there - we didn't physically punish the ABs enough early in the game to make them think twice about doing it again. Instead we played nice and got embarrassed yet again.

Leaving aside the interpretation at ruck time and our piss-poor ruck security after the first 20 minutes, did Lawrence not warn McCaw that his boys were infringing too much? And then after they stopped for 10 minutes, and started again, failed to penalise them adequately for the infringements at the breakdown he did see? Nope - they eased up and then Lawrence seemed to let them off for good behaviour.

This is my personal bugbear since the yellow card was brought in: that refs warn teams to the nth degree, but don't whip out their balls (and a card) when it matters.

Lawrence is a decent ref. So, for example, is Craig Joubert. But they (and others) all seem to have moments of fanboy worship of Richie McCaw at the Test and S14 games I get to see.

The easy way to tell how much his reputation affects his play is when a NH ref takes the whistle - remember the 2006 NH tour when Pearson adjudicated Wales v ABs? 15 minutes into the second half McCaw is offside at a ruck, off his feet, killing the ball (like most of last night) when the boyos were hot on attack in the 22. Pearson called him out, told him what he did wrong, showed him the card, and asked him who the captain was going to be. No nonsense and simple application of the laws.

Kiwis went into collective apoplexy over this. I'm sure a government inquiry was called When I pointed out what he did wrong on TSF (to murmurs of agreement from the sensible posters) people went daisy-cutter on my arse. Go have a look at the report on the official All Blacks stats site (http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2138) - my personal favourite is this quote:

After 15 minutes, captain Richie McCaw was sin-binned for allegedly killing the ball at a ruck, following an early warning.

They have no objective view of what McCaw gets away with, because they only time they pay attention is when he gets busted. And hey it is his job as an openside and he does it better than anyone. But there is a moment where it goes beyond the realms of gamesmanship and into the fantasy land of taking the piss.

Then again, this is a nation who in one of their nation's museums (Christchurch) have a display on rugby saying that South Africa stole the 1995 RWC unfairly. I wish I took a photo at the time...

If you could pick on Lawrence for one thing last night, it was inconsistency. The ABs got away with murder more than a few times, but you had a situation later in the game where Pocock did everything right under the new intepretations (if you've got your hands on it before the ruck forms, its your ball), he was accused of not coming through the gate which was blatantly untrue.


[edited to keep the anal retentives happy]

 

[Scorz]

They have no objective view of what McCaw gets away with, because they only time they pay attention is when he gets busted. And hey it is his job as an openside and he does it better than anyone. But there is a moment where it goes beyond the realms of gamesmanship and into the fantasy land of taking the piss.

Who's they? Me? I hated on him when he McCawed my beloved Waikato a few years back, but my old man (Northland fan) made me sit through replays and explained the difference between "illegal" and "pushing the limits of the laws". Maybe watching him in the NPC in slower games around slower guys, it's easier to isolate and understand. At least, that's how I was converted anyway.

Then again, this is a nation who in one of their national museums (Christchurch) have a display on rugby saying that South Africa stole the 1995 RWC unfairly. I wish I took a photo at the time...

Christchurch doesn't have a National Museum, that would have to be in Wellington. Now, McCaw plays for Canterbury/Crusaders... Capital of said region: Christchurch. That same region is famous for it's one-eyed fans.

 

[Pfitzy]

@ Scorz re: museums - you're as nit picky as the QLDers around here! Fixed - you happy now?

@ Scorz re: hating McCaw - this is what I mean. Those of you who aren't Cantabs get the shits with him until its Test time.

Maybe that game against Waikato your old man had some good points, but there is no "pushing the laws" when its blatantly not behind the last feet, or lying on the ball, or tapping the ball out of the halfback's hands like he did in Brisbane a few years ago (Kaplan gave him a warning).

The problem is we're going to end up in a situation where a ref finally straps a pair on and takes the glass-half-empty view, and it might be an important game. I can imagine the "Dingo stole my World Cup" t-shirts that would be printed if McCaw was yellow carded in the last minutes of a RWC2011 semi-final, allowing Australia to take the win

 

[Scorz]

I never let the South Island get any credit as being more than the lesser populated back water that it remains... :fishing

Nah, I don't hate him now in any jersey, I recognise that he's just that bloody good - even if he does at times over step the mark. George Smith is the same. If the ref doesn't ping him why should he stop is the general consensus isn't it... But to say it's a global refereeing conspiracy is ridiculous.

Do you remember what happened in that game where Kaplan warned him after the warning?

BTW, Deans won't be coaching your lot at the RWC mate. He'll be sacked or have resigned by then. A few more bum roots to go - from the NH lot probably - and it's curtains for The Dingo Experiment.

 

[cyclopath]

Without quoting Nick's entire thread, which might upset Captain Scarf - hear, hear, Nick.
The poor, or usually non-use of the yellow card is a blight.
If they really want the warning system that seems to have become the default setting, then FFS have some proscribed number before escalation, rather than "I have warned you", then "I have warned you as second time", then "No, really, I mean it", then "Oh, come on guys, I already warned you and asked nicely", then "Oh, sorry, but if it's not too much trouble, would that pesky No 7 stop cheating quite so blatantly, or I might have to warn you about giving another warning" then *sound of tumbleweeds*.
And no, any 7 will do in this case, it's not a McCaw bleat in particular.

 

[Henry]

Last night Lawrence was repeatedly tapping Mcaws back and pointing at him as he was killing the ball from an offside position, yet he did nothing more about it. It happened soooo many times. Its infuriating...

 

[Pfitzy]

The poor, or usually non-use of the yellow card is a blight.

Yes - this situation or the blatant professional foul are inconsistently applied. You see a player infringe when the opposition have broken through and are about to score get a yellow. But if they break out and the infringement happens more than 10m from the line (e.g. Thomson last night a few times) then a penalty and an empty threat.

 

[Ash]

Bribing the refs is ridiculous. <edit> I meant saying that they did...

Ignoring the slowing the ball in the rucks - damn it's frustrating watching Genia fighting to dig out a ball on our side (and a few times you could see the All Black arm over it) but really the Wallaby forwards need some aggression and to teach them a lesson with a very very hard shoulder cleanout.

Hmmm, but somehow McCaw and Thomson have made an artform of entering a ruck, then stepping around the side and flopping over the ball or picking it up. One in the first half that McCaw did in front of the ref was comical - obviously come around onto the wrong side, he then half leans on a Wallaby player, holding the ball in, and then raises his arm to knock out the ball as Genia takes it before realising the ref is right there and backs off a bit. Comical, really. Wish I could learn how to do that and not get pinged though.

 

[Blue]

Pretty much every fan of any team thinks the other team gets away with it more than their own. But if you guys want to believe NZ get away with more for any reason, far be it from me to reduce the perceived aura...

Aura Schmaura.

For some reason refs ten to warn to ABs and then not see it through. I's weird.

 

[junior]

Pretty much every fan of any team thinks the other team gets away with it more than their own. But if you guys want to believe NZ get away with more for any reason, far be it from me to reduce the perceived aura...

Aura Schmaura.

For some reason refs ten to warn to ABs and then not see it through. I's weird.

God I wish there was a "world's smallest violin" icon on this board...

As to why McCaw and Thommos were on the Wobbler side of the ruck, it's because the yellow guys couldn't clean them out. That's kind of the point of the breakdown: to drive through, over and past the ball.

 

[barbarian]

The one that got me was Woodcock's turnover at the end of the first half. We are hot on attack, go to ground, ruck forms. About 2 minutes into said ruck Woodcock simply reaches into the ruck and picks up the ball, pushing it back to Cowan who cleared. I was under the impression that once a ruck had formed (players in contact over the ball) one could not simply reach in and chuck it back ones own side.

But obviously I was mistaken, because Lawrence ignored this rule all night long.

 

[Blue]

Pretty much every fan of any team thinks the other team gets away with it more than their own. But if you guys want to believe NZ get away with more for any reason, far be it from me to reduce the perceived aura...

Aura Schmaura.

For some reason refs ten to warn to ABs and then not see it through. I's weird.

God I wish there was a "world's smallest violin" icon on this board...

As to why McCaw and Thommos were on the Wobbler side of the ruck, it's because the yellow guys couldn't clean them out. That's kind of the point of the breakdown: to drive through, over and past the ball.

True.

PS I play the piano.