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ISA Rugby 2015

Discussion in 'Schoolboy Rugby' started by Ruck & Maul 101, Aug 29, 2014.

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ISA Title

Oakhill 15 vote(s) 32.6%
St Augustines 12 vote(s) 26.1%
Kinross 2 vote(s) 4.3%
Stannies 8 vote(s) 17.4%
St Pius 2 vote(s) 4.3%
St Gregs 0 vote(s) 0.0%
St Pats 8 vote(s) 17.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Quick Hands David Wilson (68)

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    You've obviously got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning haven't you?

    Perhaps you might like to ask yourself "What is the purpose of school sport?"

    Is it to provide a healthy physical outlet for children, learning valuable physical and social skills? Or is it a pathway to elite sport?

    You still haven't answered the question as to whether or not a longer season equates to a more competitive season.

    What precisely is to be gained by playing mismatches a second time in a season?

    It might surprise you to learn that the current one round set-up satisfies many of the participants. Their son can play a game of rugby (or other sports), with their mates against other schools and if they are more serious they can play club rugby where they get more games - hopefully enough games to satisfy you.

    My son doesn't go to an ISA school, so if push comes to shove, I'll bow to people do have offspring there as they have a greater interest. But I would like a dollar for every St Augustines parent who I saw at club rugby who said something like "thank god school rugby is over" last week.

    At the open level ISA is able to field teams which are more competitive against the other associations, but a look down at the age groups indicates that the number of teams is shrinking not growing:

    Only 3 Div 1 schools could field a 15C, Only 2 x Div 1 schools could field a 14D and only 4 Div 1 schools could field at 13D (2 of the 5 teams were from St Aug). Pius and Kinross can only field As and Bs and Gregs can only field an A team. (Source ISA website)

    The ISA has to deal with a couple of issues that the other associations don't: distance being one, another being that sport doesn't always have the same mandatory requirements as the others - and plenty of other sports they can choose - basketball, water polo, soccer and futsal can all be played at Augustine's with 1 training session a week and all games on the peninsula.

    I would caution that you may well end up with less boys playing more matches rather than more boys playing less matches. I guess it depends on the answer to the first question; What is the purpose of school sport? Those wanting it to be an elite pathway will play as many games as you put on, it might surprise you to know that those who are in it for participation have other ideas.

    There's no logical reason for the "third association" as you call it to follow the other two if it doesn't suit its own students.

    Hopefully this qualifies as a "useful contribution" I'd hate for any of my posts not to reach your benchmark for usefulness.
  2. sarcophilus Charlie Fox (21)

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    quote="Quick Hands, post: 778497, member: 8942"
    ask yourself "What is the purpose of school sport?"


    Is it to provide a healthy physical outlet for children, learning valuable physical and social skills? Or is it a pathway to elite sport?

    I have answered this on this site frequently. sport is for all to participate. Enjoyment paramount even for the elite. It is not the primary function of a school.


    You still haven't answered the question as to whether or not a longer season equates to a more competitive season.
    A longer competition is a longer competition. given there are likely to be less trial matches available it may not mean more matches in a season Rugby is a winter sports run from April to August ish a five round comp is one match per month that sounds like fun


    What precisely is to be gained by playing mismatches a second time in a season?

    About as much as will be lost by playing a second competitive match in a season

    It might surprise you to learn that the current one round set-up satisfies many of the participants. Their son can play a game of rugby (or other sports), with their mates against other schools and if they are more serious they can play club rugby where they get more games - hopefully enough games to satisfy you.
    you would note by the "inner ear infection " thread I am questioning balance of all aspects of participation. Satisfying me? I won't want my kids playing two weekend games of rugby (if that's what they choose) after the age of about 14.


    My son doesn't go to an ISA school, so if push comes to shove, I'll bow to people do have offspring there as they have a greater interest. But I would like a dollar for every St Augustines parent who I saw at club rugby who said something like "thank god school rugby is over" last week.
    Six games was too much for them?

    At the open level ISA is able to field teams which are more competitive against the other associations, but a look down at the age groups indicates that the number of teams is shrinking not growing:
    Only 3 Div 1 schools could field a 15C, Only 2 x Div 1 schools could field a 14D and only 4 Div 1 schools could field at 13D (2 of the 5 teams were from St Aug). Pius and Kinross can only field As and Bs and Gregs can only field an A team. (Source ISA website)
    I would Hazard a guess that such diminutions through the ages are normal at club or school. many tennis players, marathon runners and dancers realise collision sports are not for them.
    The ISA has to deal with a couple of issues that the other associations don't: distance being one, another being that sport doesn't always have the same mandatory requirements as the others - and plenty of other sports they can choose - basketball, water polo, soccer and futsal can all be played at Augustine's with 1 training session a week and all games on the peninsula.You may find it is more mandatory than being stated. The schools that do week end sports finish their terms earlier based on this participation in school activities. if the students are not taking part they may not be meeting commitments given

    I would caution that you may well end up with less boys playing more matches rather than more boys playing less matches. I guess it depends on the answer to the first question; What is the purpose of school sport?
    you are right.. participation in the sport you choose for enjoyment and participation in extracurricular activity is for broader social development what ever you choose as has been discussed before the schools owe nothing to any one sport. They are there to serve their community Is ISA has been around 20-25 years, is Augustine's rugby 15 years old yet? We know that without a real succession plan and heads of school/councils to drive the sport a culture will change
    Those wanting it to be an elite pathway will play as many games as you put on, it might surprise you to know that those who are in it for participation have other ideas.
    The status quo does not work as you have noted not a balanced competition, it may have been more balanced when St Augustines weren't in it. would you fix the comp by asking them to leave. It may be more balanced if one of the teams better suited move to second division. If this is already happening the ISA Division 1 comp would be five games long.. is that better than an noncompetitive six

    There's no logical reason for the "third association" as you call it to follow the other two if it doesn't suit its own students.

    Avoiding a five game season is a good reason to go to two rounds

    Hopefully this qualifies as a "useful contribution" I'd hate for any of my posts not to reach your benchmark for usefulness.
    a fifth teat really
    [/quote]
  3. sarcophilus Charlie Fox (21)

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    three of those six games were at Rat Park, a fourth Oxford falls two week end excursion many parents didn't go to as buses were provided that wasn't a hard season in fact I would suggest there are more trips to Randwick Southern Districts and Parramatta if you play club rugby
  4. Quick Hands David Wilson (68)

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    ^^^I think that their point is more the length of the season. They start training in early March and finish in early August for a 6 match season. And most of those 6 matches result in 50 points plus victories.

    From what I can see of the ISA competition, it is very rare for any of the other schools to beat Augustines or Oakhill. From my observation of the points tables on the ISA website this is just as true in the age groups as 1st XV.

    But as I said earlier, if the majority of schools want to go to 2 rounds, it will happen. Whether it ends up being in the long term benefit of rugby in the ISA only time will tell.

    I should also point out that only 4 of the teams in Div 1 are full members of the ISA, so they will be the 4 that get to vote on it.
  5. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Anyone out at Oakhill yesterday for the ISA Div II grand final matches?
  6. forwards4ever Jimmy Flynn (14)

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    Results in paper this morning! Redfield easily won the Opens!
  7. Brentwood Stan Wickham (3)

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  8. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

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    I'm keen to have some rough figures of Schoolboy Rugby participation around the country.

    Just wondering about the size of the ISA rugby competition, and how it is faring against the round ball game.

    How many teams does each school in the ISA comp have overall? What is the breakdown by age group, and what is the same for soccer?

    Using The Kings School as an example, the figures using a legend of Total (Open/U16/U15/U14/U13) are:
    Rugby 29(10/4/5/4/6)
    Soccer 37 (9/6/7/6/9)

    Anyone have the figures for their school?

    Looking at the ISA Web site it looks like this is the comparison between Rugby and Soccer teams

    Oakhill College
    Rugby 19 (6,3,3,3,4)
    Soccer 17 (5,2,3,3,4)

    St Augustine's
    Rugby 18 (4,2,3,4,5)
    Soccer not in ISA competition

    St Stanislaus
    Rugby 16 (5,3,3,3,2)
    Soccer not in ISA competition

    St Patrick's
    Rugby 18 (5,2,3,4,4)
    Soccer 18 (5,3,3,4,3)

    Kinross Wolaroi
    Rugby 12 (3,2,3,2,2)
    Soccer not in ISA competition

    St Gregory's
    Rugby 8 (3,2,1,1,1)
    Soccer not in ISA competition

    St Pius X
    Rugby 13 (2,3,2,2,4)
    Soccer 15 (4,2,2,3,4)

    The Scots School
    Rugby 4 (1,1,0,1,1)
    Soccer not in ISA competition

    Blue Mountains Grammar School
    Rugby 4 (1,1,1,1,0)
    Soccer 5 (1,1,1,1,1)

    Oxley College
    Rugby 4 (1,0,1,1,1)
    Soccer 4 (1,1,1,0,1)

    Redfield College
    Rugby 5 (1,1,1,1,1)
    Soccer 5 (1,1,1,1,1)

    Central Coast Grammar School
    Rugby 4 (1,1,1,1,0)
    Soccer 5 (1,1,1,1,1)

    St Andrew's Cathedral School
    Rugby 5 (1,1,1,1,1)
    Soccer 12 (3,2,2,3,2)

    Chevalier College
    Rugby 5 (1,1,1,1,1)
    Soccer 8 (2,1,1,2,2)

    All Saints College
    Rugby 4 (1,1,0,1,1)
    Soccer not in ISA competition

    SCEGGS Redlands
    Rugby 4 (1,1,1,1,0)
    Soccer 11 (3,2,2,1,3)

    St Pauls Grammar School
    Rugby not in ISA competition
    Soccer 4 (1,1,1,1,0)

    St Spirydon College
    Rugby not in ISA competition
    Soccer 8 (1,2,1,2,2)

    All ISA Rugby 143 (37,25,25,28,28) @ 18 per team = 2574 in participating in Rugby
    All ISA Soccer 112 (28,19,19,22,24) @ 14 per team = 1568 in participating in Soccer
  9. Quick Hands David Wilson (68)

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    ^^^I understand that St Augustine's has something like 25 soccer teams which compete in the local Manly Warringah club competitions instead of ISA (no travel and higher standard I'm told).
  10. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

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    St Gregorys are in the CCC competition for League. I reckon that they may have quite a few Loig players unavailable for ISA Rugby.

    Kinross is an AICES School and their Soccer teams may also play in a local club competition.

    All Saints, The Scots School, and St Stanislaus Soccer teams may also play in a Bathurst area soccer competition.

    Unknown what their player numbers/team numbers are like.

    Comparison to the other NSW School Associations and using assumed team sizes of 18 for Rugby, and 14 for Soccer (to accommodate for injured, rehab and bench) then the comparison is as follows:

    The numbers are Total Teams (Opens, U16, U15, U14, U13):


    ISA Rugby Teams = 143 (37,25,25,28,28) @ 18 per team is approximately 2574 Rugby participants
    ISA Soccer Teams = 112 (28,19,19,22,24) @ 14 per team is approximately 1568 Soccer participants

    CAS Rugby Teams = 125 (33,20,22,23,27) @ 18 players per team is approximately 2250 Rugby participants
    CAS Soccer Teams = 170 (43,29,30,35,33) @ 14 players per team is approximately 2380 Soccer participants

    AAGPS Rugby Teams = 223 (61,36,40,41,45) @ 18 players per team is approximately 4014 Rugby participants
    AAGPS Soccer Teams = 245 (69,40,42,46,48) @ 14 players per team is approximately 3430 Soccer participants

    All up across AAGPS, CAS and ISA
    Rugby = 491 (131,81,87,92,100) Teams @ 18 players per team is approximately 8838 Rugby participants
    Soccer = 527 (140,88,91,103,105) Teams @ 14 players per team is approximately 7378 Rugby participants
    Harv likes this.

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