The easiest way to lessen the influence of Hamas would be to raise the standard of living of Palestinians. Terrorism and extremism flourish amongst the poor and disenfranchised.
Israel/Palestine
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#1 Tah
Chilla Wilson (44)
Word among the heavily biased jewish community is that Israel offered a ceasefire, with one of the terms including no rockets from both sides for the next 15 years and Hamas declined. A ground invasion is expected in the next 36-72 hours.
www.haaretz.com says on their live blog
(ha aretz translates to "the land")
Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz tells Army Radio: If truce not reached, IDF will expand operation within hours, not days.
IDF says 95 Palestinians, one-third of them uninvolved in conflict, have been killed since beginning of Operation Pillar of Defense.
Hacktivist group Anonymous has weighed in as well: http://anonnews.org/press/item/1885/
www.haaretz.com says on their live blog
(ha aretz translates to "the land")
Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz tells Army Radio: If truce not reached, IDF will expand operation within hours, not days.
IDF says 95 Palestinians, one-third of them uninvolved in conflict, have been killed since beginning of Operation Pillar of Defense.
Hacktivist group Anonymous has weighed in as well: http://anonnews.org/press/item/1885/
overthehill
Allen Oxlade (6)
There is plenty of trouble in the West Bank. Fatah has no legitimacy amongst the population.
The reality is that you have one side an occupying force with the 4th or 5th biggest military force on the planet determined to control all of Palestine, and an occupied, blockaded and brutalised population of refugees on the other.
Hamas have constantly offered cease fires in return for lifting the (illegal) blockade. It is "Israel" refusing to talk peace.
overthehill
Allen Oxlade (6)
TIMELINE: Israel's Latest Escalation in Gaza
IMEU, NOV 14, 2012
On Wednesday, November 14th, it was reported that Israel assassinated the leader of Hamas' military wing, Ahmed Jabari, breaking a tentative truce with Palestinian fighters that had been in place since Monday. The truce followed an escalation in violence that began last Thursday in which 6 Palestinian civilians were killed, including three children, and more than 50 others injured.
The IMEU offers the following timeline of the recent violence and a link to an IMEU fact sheet on previous Israeli ceasefire violations.
- TIMELINE: ISRAEL'S LATEST ESCALATION IN GAZA -
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8
Following a two-week lull in violence, Israeli soldiers invade Gaza. In the resulting exchange of gunfire with Palestinian fighters, a 12-year-old boy is killed by an Israeli bullet while he plays soccer.
Shortly afterwards, Palestinian fighters blow up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel frontier, injuring one Israeli soldier.
SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 10
An anti-tank missile fired by Palestinian fighters wounds four Israeli soldiers driving in a jeep along the Israel-Gaza boundary.
An Israeli artillery shell lands in a soccer field in Gaza killing two children, aged 16 and 17. Later, an Israeli tank fires a shell at a tent where mourners are gathered for a funeral, killing two more civilians, and wounding more than two dozen others.
SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 11
One Palestinian civilian is killed and dozens more wounded in Israeli attacks. Four Israeli civilians are also injured as a result of projectiles launched from Gaza, according to the Israeli government.
During an Israeli government cabinet meeting, Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz urgesthe government to "cut off the head of the snake... take out the leadership of Hamas in Gaza." He also calls for a cutting off of water, food, electricity, and fuel shipments to Gaza's 1.7 million people.
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 12
Palestinian militant factions agree to a truce if Israel ends its attacks.
WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 14
Israel breaks two days of calm by assassinating Ahmed Jabari, the head of Hamas' military wing. According to reports, at least eight other Palestinians are killed in Israeli attacks, including at least two children. Palestinian militant groups vow to respond.
BPC
Phil Hardcastle (33)
That's true. I did say less trouble rather than no trouble. Certainly there is no barrage of rockets from West Bank. Fatah's legitimacy is actively undermined by Hamas, so again it is the extremists stirring up trouble for their own agenda.
Israel have not covered themseleves in glory with forced resettlements, the concrete fence, Israeli settlement on 'Palestinian territory' but it is hard to criticise a military response when rockets are raining down on their cities. Proportionality of the response is difficult to assess without having been there to see the impact of the Palestinian terror tactics on Israeli citizens.
overthehill
Allen Oxlade (6)
Fatah's legitimacy is lost by its own actions as Israeli agents. Abbas is a quisling.
History doesn't start when Gazans fire a few bottle rockets into the desert, despite the media's parroting of the hasbara chorus. "Israels" terror tactics are far deadlier and far far more frequent. The rockets have nought to do with Israeli actions other than serve as a cassus belli for western PR consumption.
There is no symmetry between the occupiers' violence and the occupieds' resistance. There is no Palestinian action that can be compared with the illegal, inhuman blockade of Gaza.
Here's the context.
BPC
Phil Hardcastle (33)
I don't agree with all of that, but there is a long and bitter history with blood on both sides that can't be summed up in a few posts. Certainly with the latest round of escalation, Israel's response seems disproportionate as their ballistic defences are stopping most of Hamas' rockets while Hamas can't do much to stop laser guided bombs from modern strike aircraft. Hopefully Israel will not proceed with the threatened ground assault as it will really become a bloodbath. As usually, the victims are the many citizens (on both sides) who just want to live their lives with some semblence of peace and quiet while Hamas and Likud survive and 'maintain the rage'.
Sadly it would seem that the most chance Hamas has to get international support and sympathy is to incite Israel into launching a full attack on Gaza and slaughtering many Palestinian citizens.
Israel continues the blockade under the guise that it is to stop weaponry etc. getting to Hamas. Whilst that will be true to an extent, it also ensures that the Palestinian people are left impoverished.
Israel continues the blockade under the guise that it is to stop weaponry etc. getting to Hamas. Whilst that will be true to an extent, it also ensures that the Palestinian people are left impoverished.
overthehill
Allen Oxlade (6)
It isn't a response to rockets. If they didn't want rockets, they'd have continued the ceasefire. They assassinated the Hamas guy who enforced the ceasefires on the Gazan side.
There's no rockets coming from the West Bank but the ethnic cleansing etc is going on full bore while the quislings of Fatah diddle.
Hamas are perfectly rational and it wouldn't matter who was the ascendent party in any case. Israel wants the conflict to be maintained and they will do anything to stop peace breaking out.
The long and bitter history started when zionists decided to colonise Palestine and kick the Palestinians off their land. There is no moral equivalence between the occupier and the occupied. Especially when the occupied are suffering constant criminal transgressions against them.
overthehill
Allen Oxlade (6)
I take Edward Said's view that the "2 state solution" was always a hoax that played Palestinians and their supporters in the West into the hands of the occupiers and their elite backers. What has happened post-Oslo confirms it.
overthehill
Allen Oxlade (6)
It's perfectly clear who are the victims and who are the aggressors. And the media bias toward "Israel" couldn't be more blatant.
The Palestinians are treated at best as non-people and more usually "terrorists" in their own land. It's a study in propaganda that highlights the absurdity we are led to believe is journalism and trashes the notion of having a free press.
The media/propaganda is interesting. I have a few facebook friends who share the facebook updates of the IDF which portray all the good things the IDF are doing for Palestine and how evil Hamas is etc.
I think it is fair to take the whole thing with a grain of salt but I find it interesting how active the IDF is in trying to persuade the world that they are in the right.
#1 Tah
Chilla Wilson (44)
To you it might seem so, but others may beg to differ. The IDF claimed that a large amount of children living in Sterot in Israel live with PTSD due to the Hamas rockets, but the amount of people living with PTSD in Gaza must be unbelievable.
ACT Crusader
Jim Lenehan (48)
Well both "sides" have the PR game game down pat then, when in doubt play the victim and if that gains no traction, blame the media coverage.
On the media coverage here in OZ it's basically ABC feeding off BBC footage/clips with a correspondent in Washington covering the US reaction, and Sky News using the Ch9 feed with Stefanovic over on the ground. He was walking through the streets yesterday with the Palestinians and the mourning of loss.
I guess it's come down to the most minuscule detail in terms of the 'bias' as in whether news agency X mentions who fired first and the calibre of the weapon. It's not really overt for the most part.
overthehill
Allen Oxlade (6)
Do you honestly think Palestine has anything that rivals the Israeli lobby and the hasbara?
The omission of context and of Israeli crimes is endemic in the Western media. The BBC is staunchly Zionist and the most polished propaganda organ on the planet.
It is no game to the Palestinians.
Israel are openly targeting journalists in Gaza now.
overthehill
Allen Oxlade (6)
Again, there is no symmetry between the plight of Israelis and the plight of Palestinians.
bryce
Darby Loudon (17)
My biggest concern is that it doesn't take much for these conflicts to escalate into something much bigger.
With the current situation with Israel and Iran this could turn very nasty. Iran has admitted that they have sent military aid to Hamas. It might only take one of these rockets hitting a target in Israel and killing a large number of civilians. It isn't hard to imagine Netanyahu using that as a justification to finally bomb Iran. God help us if that happens.
With the current situation with Israel and Iran this could turn very nasty. Iran has admitted that they have sent military aid to Hamas. It might only take one of these rockets hitting a target in Israel and killing a large number of civilians. It isn't hard to imagine Netanyahu using that as a justification to finally bomb Iran. God help us if that happens.
ACT Crusader
Jim Lenehan (48)
I'm not implying the war is a game, but you can't deny that both sides use the media.
I'm interested in how you know that Israel are "openly targeting journalists in Gaza" perhaps they are perhaps they're not and unless you are there, you may have got that from a journo/commentator that was fed by the Palestinians?
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