• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Julia's Reign

Status
Not open for further replies.

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
I have little love for this current Labor government, which is more despite for fucktards than an ideological thing. That said, if they disappear up their own fundament, it does little for the country if an Abbott-led party is allowed to control both houses and have such a majority that they get 2 terms for 1, so to speak. I hope Turnbull can have some sway and keep his hand on the rudder of social policy, which I think he has a much better grasp of than many in his party.
Amazing that 2 parties trying, for the main part, to occupy the middle ground can be perceived so differently.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Abbott won't get both houses, the Greens and a few independents will hold the balance in the senate.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
I refuse to vote for that Fucktard! I will screw up the voting slip first.

Which fucktard? There are a few to choose from. I suspect there will be many donkey votes next year.

Ps why do we allow swearing about politician but not rugby players? Rules should apply evenly for all.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Abbott won't get both houses, the Greens and a few independents will hold the balance in the senate.

I think there is a chance that the public will be wary of minor parties/independents in either house next election. They may be seen as a cause of some of the difficulties experienced in this parliament, including the fact that they may be perceived as having held the government to ransom for pet issues.

Also Christine Milne doesn't seem quite as reassuringly average as Uncle Bob did - she can get a mad look in her eyes....
 

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)

Great insightsl Joe. I particularly liked:

"the fact that Gillard has no children perhaps also limits her exposure to what’s happening in the world outside the rarefied corridors of Canberra or the Melbourne dinner party set."

And the bit about Slater and Gordon was brilliant. How many pollies are lawyers, or are you suggesting that she would get a broader life education at a place like Minter Ellison?
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I think there is a chance that the public will be wary of minor parties/independents in either house next election. They may be seen as a cause of some of the difficulties experienced in this parliament, including the fact that they may be perceived as having held the government to ransom for pet issues.

Also Christine Milne doesn't seem quite as reassuringly average as Uncle Bob did - she can get a mad look in her eyes....


I would be amazed to see the Aus public give Abbott a free reign, we/they aren't that stupid. I expect they will give him a go but with the senate hobbling him.
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
I never used to understand how some countries in Scandanavia basically have a one party system, with the oposition only managing to take power once or twice a century. Thanks to the Gillard government I now get a feel for how this could happen.

Labor has failed to recognise the complete and utter dissapearance of it's heartland voter. There is now a smaller underclass in Australia than ever before and a large proportion of this class have had their consciousness raised that in this great modern country, anyone can be anything. They also recognise that the path to this is economic certainty and growth.

Under Kevin Rudd, Labor was attracting voters by essentially being Liberal light (quite a worthy goal in my moderate opinion). When they knifed Rudd and slipped into bed with the Greens they turned their backs on these people and are now targeting the very smallest population of possible Labor voters, people who vote Labor because they allways have. They won't gain the vote of the eco-left as the Greens have out performed them in this parliarmentary term comprehensively, they won't get the right (obviously), and have completely lost the swing voter in the middle as they are now perceived as being too left.

Pile this dire public perception of their stance on top of the most dishonest PM we have ever had and I doubt they will gain 30% of the primary vote if they take Gillard to the next pole as PM.

I don't think voters have abandoned Labor for being too far to the left. I think they've abandoned Labor for not standing for anything, for being morally and intellectually bankrupt and unable to be trusted. Why they think an Abbott lead coalition is any different beats me.

In respect of your point about the smaller underclass in Australia, you should read Peter Hartcher's Sweet Spot. It gives a clear and sensible explanation about the balance between what, traditionally, Labor and the Liberals have stood for and what they're now trying to do.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Fatprop - only half the senate faces the electorate which probably favours your view.
But its not hard to see that the general disillusionment with the government, first, and all pollies, second, might lead to a protest vote. i think they may also be open to the view that dividing the spoils of power in the way the last election did has produced an unworkable outcome.
Fascinating for those of us who can't help ourselves but I suspect the general public don't want to be confronted with the shortcomings of those they entrusted with running the country on an hourly basis: it is interesting to speculate how little of what has gone on would have raised a ripple were it not for, the effectively, hung parliament.
And now KRudd is back in the frame - someone put this thing out of its misery!
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Interesting analysis

Rescuing survivors of Labor slaughter
Simon Benson

Thursday, May 03, 2012 (7:52pm)

IF it hasn’t already become so, the Australian Labor Party will soon become completely ungovernable.
Julia Gillard’s time as Prime Minister appears to be coming to an end. But no one inside the parliamentary party, or its executive branches, knows what to do about it.
This week the NSW party secretary Sam Dastyari publicly said he thought MPs should get behind Gillard.
It was a forlorn and unbelievable display of solidarity. Privately, the party boss is telling his NSW federal MPs that it is up to them what they do. The Labor party machine won’t get involved.
Dastyari has learned from bitter experience. When he began making calls earlier this year to his MPs to shore up support for Gillard in the face of the imminent challenge from Kevin Rudd, many of them told him to get stuffed.
He has also learned from his predecessors and their interference in the running of the previous NSW Labor government, when the party machine decided it was its job to dictate who was and who wasn’t going to be leader.
Dastyari’s position marks a significant change in the perceived power structures of the Labor machine and its relationship to the parliamentary wing.
If indeed he does intend to stay out of any moves against Gillard, then it truly will be up to the caucus to decide Gillard’s fate.
The problem with this scenario, to use a phrase once coined by Joe Tripodi, is that you get a situation akin to “herding cats”.
Perversely, this could work in Gillard’s favour. With no one inside the caucus yet bold enough to take on the task of herding the cats and tapping Gillard on the shoulder to resign, the PM will remain safe.
There will not be another spill or challenge from Rudd. He will only take the job by acclamation. It’s unlikely she will move aside.
Until some genius in the party works out how to get around this issue, it will be a stalemate.
The caveat, considering the level of angst within the caucus, is that the situation could become so volatile that no one will be able to stop it all falling over.
Despite public protests to the contrary, MPs are fixated on the fortnightly polls which show Labor on a hiding to electoral misery.
The number they fear is the primary vote. This week it is down to around 27 per cent, which means a large majority of those MPs would lose their jobs at an election.
But it’s likely the primary vote number will move between 27 and 33 per cent for the next 12 months, as it has for the past 12 months.
MPs have every right to be concerned about this and demand answers from their leader, as well as the factional bosses who now move sheepishly around parliament wondering how they justify their support for the PM.
But they are looking at the wrong numbers if they think shelving Gillard will solve all their problems. The number they should be considering in any consideration of removing Gillard is her dissatisfaction rate - now around 60 per cent.
This is the key number in terms of her survivability. At this level any leader is terminal and unlikely to ever improve.
On that assumption alone the caucus would ordinarily be looking to change leaders. That was the number Morris Iemma was on when he was dumped, despite a primary vote for the party of around 34 per cent.
But fixing one problem doesn’t necessarily solve the other. If they believe that, by dumping Gillard, the primary vote will miraculously rise to a respectable 36 per cent plus, they are kidding themselves. And there is a risk it won’t.
This primary vote is not singularly linked to Gillard. It is a reflection of Labor’s brand more generally and a reflection of the unpopularity of Labor policy - in this case the carbon tax.
Unless the carbon price is modified - and it clearly can’t be Gillard who does it - Labor’s electoral prospects are unlikely to improve. They will just continue to get worse. And the same fundamental problem will continue to exist. Labor will be smashed at an election.
This polling theory is also reflected, inversely, in the Coalition. Its primary vote is sky high because Tony Abbott stands to ditch all of Labor’s bad policies - not because people like Abbott.
Abbott’s dissatisfaction rating is almost as bad as Gillard’s, at around 40 per cent.
What this suggests is there is no longer a presidential element to the battle of national politics.
Most voters dislike both leaders.
And therefore it is unlikely that any leader Labor decides to go to the next election with - whether it be Gillard, Rudd, Shorten, Smith, Combet or Crean - will have any ability to do more than save a bit of furniture.
Dastyari and others are well aware that there is no longer a hope of retaining Labor in government. The party machine in NSW is already thinking of how it rebuilds in opposition.
And it is not merely interested in saving “furniture”. It is looking specifically at which furniture to save and who will be sitting in it.
In other words, which MPs does it want to keep around in opposition to give it the best chance of rebuilding. There is little point in saving a bunch of dud MPs just to have numbers on the floor.
It would have been unthinkable a decade ago that Labor would be at risk of losing Labor stronghold seats in southwest Sydney like Watson and McMahon.
But The Daily Telegraph has learned that Dastyari is already drawing up battle plans to save these two seats - both on around 10 per cent margins - and the MPs who hold them: ministers Chris Bowen and Tony Burke.
Like the desert bunker in the Arizona desert designed to protect the President and senior members of his administration in the threat of nuclear war so they have a group of people left capable of governing, NSW Labor is already building its own bunker and drawing up plans to save its future leadership team

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailyteleg...mments/rescuing_survivors_of_labor_slaughter/
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
"Instead, at the cost of an extra $2 billion over four years, the government will pay low- and middle-income families an annual bonus of $410 for each primary schoolchild and $820 for each child in high school."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...ax-lifeline-20120506-1y76a.html#ixzz1u7hbbAYK

Anybody else think the money might be better spent in the education system proper instead of trying to buy votes and being put though the pokies, with or without the mandatory pre-commitment ?
What a cynical effort.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Moses

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
"Instead, at the cost of an extra $2 billion over four years, the government will pay low- and middle-income families an annual bonus of $410 for each primary schoolchild and $820 for each child in high school."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...ax-lifeline-20120506-1y76a.html#ixzz1u7hbbAYK

Anybody else think the money might be better spent in the education system proper instead of trying to buy votes and being put though the pokies, with or without the mandatory pre-commitment ?
What a cynical effort.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It's like the baby bonus grew up
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
There's nothing wrong with this government that hasn't been wrong with previous governments. They haven't lied any more than "honest" John did. Have you guys forgotten Siev X, children overboard, Stan Howard, non-core promises?

The Murdoch press have done a job on the Gillard government and it's a tragedy for Oz democracy that everyone is so easily led. The Murdoch Press, having handed Abbott victory, will then get anything they want for the next 2 terms.

(And I'm no defender of the ALP, just of democracy).
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
There's nothing wrong with this government that hasn't been wrong with previous governments. They haven't lied any more than "honest" John did. Have you guys forgotten Siev X, children overboard, Stan Howard, non-core promises?

For me the issues with Labor are well beyond simple dishonesty, event though I agree that is a pretty common political trait.

It is the constant lack of political judgement (something Howard was very good at). The errors at every turn. The inability to sell policies to the Australian people. The announcement of policies before any investigation of their viability. And yet this government is actually passing a lot of legislation, but you wouldn't know it as they put their foot in it every second day.

The Murdoch press have done a job on the Gillard government and it's a tragedy for Oz democracy that everyone is so easily led. The Murdoch Press, having handed Abbott victory, will then get anything they want for the next 2 terms.

I think that is a little bit simplistic, though I agree the Murdoch press have taken an overly hard line. I would suggest Gillard has had a far greater role in 'handing Abbott victory' than Murdoch.
.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
You can tell from the content of people's criticism whether or not they read the Murdoch Press. They have been far more effective than the Federal Opposition in criticising the Gillard Government. When you suggest that they have been unable to sell their policies to the Australian people, I'd say it isn't bloody easy when Murdoch owns most of the papers.

Most Australians would consider the current government as absolutely incompetent economic managers, when they have actually been very good, having continued to make very strong decisions along the way. As an alternative, you have Abbott and Hockey. Neither is in any way qualified to manage an economy. If Murdoch applied the same degree of scrutiny to them, they would laughed out of the building.

You guys know I don't vote for the ALP but I think they have been a reasonable sort of government and the venom that is expressed for them throughout middle Australia is directly a result of Rupert Murdoch making a decision about the next government.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I agree the level of venom is way too high. I also agree that they haven't been a terrible government. They have largely got the basics right, and our society and economy has hummed along nicely. But really I don't think that is saying much.

Yes the 'selling' part is hard with a right-leaning press but it isn't impossible. Also a lot of opposition hasn't come from the press, rather powerful lobby groups such as the miners and the clubs. You piss these guys off at your own peril, and the government made two key errors in this regard- not consulting with the miners before announcing the resources rent tax, and selling their soul to Andrew Wilkie when a blind man could have seen his reforms were going to be unpopular.

The selling has been directly hampered by the government's own errors. So they are their own worst enemies in a lot of this.

I think you overstate the role of Murdoch. Sure he sways opinions, but not to the level you think and especially not outside Western Sydney and Brisbane.
.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Western Sydney and Brisbane???

From Wikipedia:

News Limited owns approximately 146 daily, Sunday, weekly, bi-weekly and tri-weekly newspapers, of which three are free commuter titles and 102 are suburban publications (including 16 of which News Limited has a 50% interest). News Limited publishes a nationally distributed newspaper in Australia, a metropolitan newspaper in each of the Australian cities of Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth (Sundays only), Hobart and Darwin and groups of suburban newspapers in the suburbs of Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Brisbane and Perth.

National
  • The Australian including weekly insert magazine The Deal and monthly insert magazine (wish)
    • The Weekend Australian including insert magazine The Weekend Australian Magazine
  • Australian Associated Press (45%)
New South Wales
  • The Daily Telegraph
  • The Sunday Telegraph including insert magazine sundaymagazine
  • mX (Sydney)
  • The Sportsman
Victoria
  • Herald Sun
  • Sunday Herald Sun including insert magazine sundaymagazine
  • mX (Melbourne)
Queensland
  • The Courier-Mail including weekly insert magazine QWeekend
    • The Sunday Mail
South Australia
  • The Advertiser including the monthly insert the Adelaide* magazine
    • Sunday Mail
Western Australia
  • The Sunday Times
Tasmania
  • The Mercury
    • The Sunday Tasmanian
Northern Territory
  • Northern Territory News
    • The Sunday Territorian
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Yes I am aware of the empire. I wasn't suggesting he had no influence, nor was I suggesting that he only had influence in Western Sydney and Brisbane.

My contention was these are the two areas where News Corp's views are most influential.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
You can tell from the content of people's criticism whether or not they read the Murdoch Press. They have been far more effective than the Federal Opposition in criticising the Gillard Government. When you suggest that they have been unable to sell their policies to the Australian people, I'd say it isn't bloody easy when Murdoch owns most of the papers.

Most Australians would consider the current government as absolutely incompetent economic managers, when they have actually been very good, having continued to make very strong decisions along the way. As an alternative, you have Abbott and Hockey. Neither is in any way qualified to manage an economy. If Murdoch applied the same degree of scrutiny to them, they would laughed out of the building.

You guys know I don't vote for the ALP but I think they have been a reasonable sort of government and the venom that is expressed for them throughout middle Australia is directly a result of Rupert Murdoch making a decision about the next government.

I don't read the Murdoch press.
What qualification did Swan have to run an economy - or Costello: whether you have it when you start or not cannot be the test.
The lack of moral fibre or conviction is exhibited in the obsession with producing a surplus tomorrow night: it is utterly irrelevant and arguably counter productive but they have been out manoeuvred into making it the litmus test of their economic standing. Thats bad politics.
so is trying to convince people that $800 odd for a kid in school is about education.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top