Lions vs Waratahs

[naza]

Fucking weak, Hickey, fucking weak. You took a team of finalists with a still very impressive forward pack and turned them into duds. Despite the great defence - only conceding 212 points (second behind the Offsaders at 198) the attack was sorely lacking, and that with forward dominance a lot of the time. If you don't think you have an attacking coach (and you don't) then fucking hire one or get out of the way so someone with balls can be head coach.

: Scapegoating coaches bores me silly. We missed out on points differential, all of 4 points worth, so you could blame the goalkickers. Or blame Lote for that dropped ball over the try line. But no, let's shit on the coach. Ironic as well that Eddie Jones gets blamed for eons for the Wallabies' style of rugby but the McKenzie/Waugh influence is discounted so readily. Instead of crediting Hickey for the forwards' performance, credit goes to Axel & Link. No wonder the Tahs coaching job is regarded as a poisoned chalice.

The only team with fewer bonus points was the wooden spoon Cheetahs. Our dire backline killed us all year. Of our backs, only Luke Burgess is worthy of a Wallaby jersey. Unfortunately I don't see any help for us in club rugby. So our options are :

1/ poach talent from overseas/other franchises
2/ bench Waugh for his negative brand of slow it down rugby, that defences lap up.
3/ polish a turd aka try to skill up our backline

 

[louie]

i think the draw helps tahs a bit too.
playing the chiefs and canes early was a huge advantage.

 

[Scarfman]

Scapegoating coaches bores me silly.

I don't see why. It's not like we're lauding the players. Seems like we're dishing it out to whoever deserves it week by week. May I say that Scott Wisemantel's plans for the backs - in his VERY FIRST run as a backs' coach - sounded ridiculous? And that the NSWRU should have stuck with Link + Louden? Or is scapegoating blazers out as well?

 

[naza]

Scapegoating coaches bores me silly.

I don't see why. It's not like we're lauding the players. Seems like we're dishing it out to whoever deserves it week by week. May I say that Scott Wisemantel's plans for the backs - in his VERY FIRST run as a backs' coach - sounded ridiculous? And that the NSWRU should have stuck with Link + Louden? Or is scapegoating blazers out as well?

His first run ? Wasn't that where he told Beale to lose some weight ? You mean the outside 'eyes' approach - the players gave it the thumbs up. Pity they kept dropping the ball, overrunning the pass, not backing up etc.

How would more Link have improved attacking play ?

 

[Pfitzy]

naza - you were the one on here during the Link era rambling away that the bloke had no idea.

We all know you had a bar for Hickey before he even threw his hat in the ring. Now he's taken basically the same team and missed the finals - not by points differential, but by some fucking pathetic losses - and you want to look elsewhere for blame. Sure our backs were shit, but having no fucking idea comes from having no fucking plan, no fucking set moves, and no players ready to play in their preferred positions.

If Hickey couldn't recognise Wisemantel's "eyes and ears" plan as UTTER WANK from the moment he first opened his trap, then he deserves to take the rap for that alone, much less coaching the WHOLE TEAM to be better.

 

[Mainlander]

We ganna get another letter of resignation Nick ????

 

[cyclopath]

OK Naza, so let me get this straight. The backs are just crap, but none of that is up to the coaches. They move them around a bit and suddenly they look like they can string together some plays in the last 3 weeks. In the last match they play a patently different style and score some tries.
Clearly the backs just decided to do it a different way, the coaches were not in the equation (if it's not their fault, clearly it can't be to their credit either).
I'm a bit confused - are the backs potentially not so crap, or did a slightly different coaching approach in both player positioning and tactics have an effect?
I do note that in most of your posts about how the coaching staff are impervious to blame that you happily attribute credit to Hickey for the forwards, despite the fact they were already good, and happily ignore the fact that Louden was a factor, not just Link, when it comes to back play, which has demonstrably suffered this year.
You can't have it both ways. Hickey can't just have the bouquets without some brickbats - that is the package you take with being a head coach.

 

[Scarfman]

I meant that this was SW's first time coaching backs and he starts his career by reinventing the wheel. When you say "the players gave it the thumbs up" you might know more than me. I heard cautious approval in the press which mean nothing. Maybe gambler has the inside scoop there on the Wisemantel experiment.

The other thing is: it's appropriate to blame the coach when the game plan looks stuffed. For example, the Tahs played fantastic against the Lions in the first half. Start the second half, and they were throwing the pill from inside their own quarter (2 tries against them immediately followed). OK, if Hickey told them to keep their structure but the players decided to do the opposite, fine, it's their fault. But it didn't look that way to me.

 

[naza]

I meant that this was SW's first time coaching backs and he starts his career by reinventing the wheel.

First time coaching backs ?

Coaching Career
1999-00 Toyoda (Japan) - Assistant Coach
2001-02 NSW Waratahs - Skills Coach
2002-03 Montferrand (France) - Assistant Coach
2004-05 Australian U19s - Coach
2004-07 Australian Wallabies - Skills Coach

I'm not sure what's controversial or stupid about getting the backs to communicate better.

 

[Lindommer]

And what have those teams achieved? Maybe Wisemantel got the gig this year on bullshit.

Naza, give us a similar CV for Louden. Chalk and cheese. And the clowns at NSWRU royally pissed him off so he chose not to stay.

 

[Pfitzy]

2004-07 Australian Wallabies - Skills Coach

And jeez wasn't that a golden age for the Wallabies? Particularly the skills :

 

[naza]

2004-07 Australian Wallabies - Skills Coach

And jeez wasn't that a golden age for the Wallabies? Particularly the skills :

He has the credentials. Don't be a hater. Turn that frown upside down. Todd Louden had a crack with the Tahs and didn't make an impression.

I'm a broken record on pointing out that the players aren't up to it. First the criticism was Link. Then the criticism was the lack of a backs coach. And now its that backs coach isn't good enough. Look at the common denominator - the players. The coaches aren't the ones dropping the ball on the field. Handling errors aren't in the game plan. Wake up Australia !

 

[naza]

Naza, give us a similar CV for Louden. Chalk and cheese. And the clowns at NSWRU royally pissed him off so he chose not to stay.

I don't know if you can put 'undermining the head coach and trying to get his job' on your resume. There's a reason he hasn't stayed with the same team for 2 years straight.

 

[cyclopath]

2004-07 Australian Wallabies - Skills Coach

And jeez wasn't that a golden age for the Wallabies? Particularly the skills :

He has the credentials. Don't be a hater. Turn that frown upside down. Todd Louden had a crack with the Tahs and didn't make an impression.

I'm a broken record on pointing out that the players aren't up to it. First the criticism was Link. Then the criticism was the lack of a backs coach. And now its that backs coach isn't good enough. Look at the common denominator - the players. The coaches aren't the ones dropping the ball on the field. Handling errors aren't in the game plan. Wake up Australia !

Fixed it, Naza.
So if they didn't drop the ball the flawless game plan would have solved all the issues?

 

[naza]

2004-07 Australian Wallabies - Skills Coach

And jeez wasn't that a golden age for the Wallabies? Particularly the skills :

He has the credentials. Don't be a hater. Turn that frown upside down. Todd Louden had a crack with the Tahs and didn't make an impression.

I'm a broken record on pointing out that the players aren't up to it. First the criticism was Link. Then the criticism was the lack of a backs coach. And now its that backs coach isn't good enough. Look at the common denominator - the players. The coaches aren't the ones dropping the ball on the field. Handling errors aren't in the game plan. Wake up Australia !

Fixed it, Naza.
So if they didn't drop the ball the flawless game plan would have solved all the issues?

Not my fault some of you are slow learners and belong in the Remedial Rugby class. The primary problem is the players aren't as good as everybody seems to think.

Yeah, tactics are a concern but that's also driven by the limitations of the players. They can't score long range tries so the game plan has to place even greater emphasis on kicking for field position. Sure, they do their share of dumb stuff. Hangers has actually been quite good but you can't constantly have your flyhalf crashing the ball up as your first phase option.

Anyway here's Louden's CV

2003/2004 - Director of Rugby at Sydney University
2004/2005 - Head Coach of Meiji University, Japan.
2006 - Head Coach of Randwick, the Axis of Evil.
2007 - Assistant coach with The Bulls.
2008 - Assistant with the Tahs.
2008/2009 - Head Coach Ricoh, Japan

 

[Scarfman]

Skills coach ... drop the ball ... skills coach ... drop the ball ...

 

[Pfitzy]

Zactly Scarfy - if he had a backline who couldn't catch, then fuck this "eyes and ears", "the centres run the game" shit. They should have done nothing but passing drills with press shuttles every time they dropped the fucking ball. If their skills didn't improve, their fitness would have.

 

[PaarlBok]

Just watched that match, thought the Lions were robbed. Couldn't see anything wrong with the last try? Where is PB?

PB doesn't seem to be around, but I am

Please do two things:

1. Check the law on the forward pass.
2. Watch the incident again, looking intently at The Boxer's hands as he directs the pass.

Was pretty sure it was a try. Cant believe Jonkers havent went to the TMO to decide on that one. But what a game by the Lions. Thought at one stage the Tahs would put 50 on them but they fight back and thats great for them. Doppies played quite well but once again the Leopards 13 & 7 newbie sure look great. They had big boots to fill the last couple of games and did it well. Think the Lions need just that bit of work on defense and they'll end on the higher part of the ladder.

For a change the Tahs cleaned it quick from rucks and it made a world of difference. Why oh why they havent noticed that you score from quick ball is just plain stupid. If they did this simple one they sure would have made the semis with enough bonuspoints, but they were awefull lucky to get that win on friday. Stop playing after a bonuspoint try and you'll pay a prize on the highveldt!

 

[Scarfman]

The highvelt was a factor, too. I can't remember the Tah piggies looking so exhausted.

 

[PaarlBok]

The highvelt was a factor, too. I can't remember the Tah piggies looking so exhausted.

Its a bit strange because the Aussie teams think it help going first to Durban then on saturday morning to altitude. Myself think it dont work, they should have been there from monday.