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Marriage Equality

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Jets, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Jets Tony Shaw (54)

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    I am not opposed to gay marriage but have serious issues with "celebrity weddings," they cause more harm to the institution of marriage than anything else. But this is a bit off topic.
    AngrySeahorse, matty_k and TOCC like this.
  2. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    What exactly is "bullshit" about my comment? I was merely pointing out the flaw in what you had stated earlier when you said that Gillard was opposed to equal rights for gay people. Pretty fucking broad statement there and not quite accurate but by all means call me out as bullshit.

    The point of what I wrote was that inclusiveness in society and in sport is a very worthwhile debate to be had but it is also one where you need to choose your words carefully. Yes marriage is one right that she is opposed to but please enlighten me as to what other rights of gay people she has opposed. Clearly there must be a shit ton of them for you to make such a broad and sweeping statement.

    But then again, going by the last sentence you wrote on that post, as BH has pointed out (bolded or not), choosing your words carefully may not be your strong point.
  3. BDA Peter Johnson (47)

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    It's pretty simple mate. you either believe that everyone should have the same rights, or you don't. That is what equal rights is all about.
  4. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    What I believe is not relevant to this discussion. You called me out as making a bullshit comment and again have missed the point of (read: ignored) my post entirely and then replied by making a broad statement.


    One last time. The argument is not that simple, and statements generalising key aspects of it do not help the debate either for or against. That's my point.
  5. southsider Arch Winning (36)

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    marriage by definition is between a man and a woman, it is a important part of the christian faith. I would not disrespect Jewish people by demanding i have the right to a Bar Mitzvah or lobbying to be able to participate in Ramadan and i think its about time people start respecting the christian religion aswell

    There is a MASSIVE difference between supporting gay rights and supporting gay marriage, as a christian i support a persons right to be gay, i have no problem with that and acknowledge it is just the way a person is i myself have family members who are gay and i fully support equal rights and support CIVIL unions between gay couples to recognise them as life partners and to get all the benefits that are associated with it.

    i do not however support gay marriage
  6. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    That would make sense if the concept of marriage was only something done by those in the Christian faith.

    Marriage predates Christianity by a very long way.
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  7. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    We get 3 or 4 cracks at each other first HJ! But yes, I agree, that horse is now dead and has been well and truly flogged.
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  8. TOCC Guest

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    Precisely lol. The alleged 'sanctity' of marriage was dissolved when the world started to allow shit like Britney Spears getting married in Vegas..
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  9. southsider Arch Winning (36)

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    Italy didnt invent pasta but it is now associated with it (poor example i know) :p

    point is just because we didnt come up with marriage doesnt mean it isnt a integral part of our religion and i think what we see today in western society in terms of marriage is based on what christians have developed from the concept, after a couple of thousand years im pretty sure we can claim it as our own.

    anyway thats hopefully the last ill say on the topic dont want to make it into a religious debate, but if anyone would like to question further you can PM me :)
  10. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    Marriage is different things to different people. For some it is a deeply religious experience and others it is a purely legal arrangement but for most it is somewhere in the middle. This is the reason that the debate is still boiling away well into the 21st century!
  11. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    I would argue that marriage is an integral part of all societies and transcends religion. It is a commitment to another person and has no more or less meaning depending on what your religion is or isn't.

    Over the last couple of thousand years, customs, laws and what is acceptable have changed greatly and I would argue that the concept of marriage like many things is defined as being what a society wants it to be.

    No one is asking for the Christian, Muslim or any other religion to conduct gay marriages in their churches. Marriage for many people now is a civil ceremony because they are not religious.
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  12. TOCC Guest

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    Mate, a portion of the world is Christian, yet nearly the whole world conforms to some sort of lifelong bond or marriage. It's definitely not something Christians can claim as their own..

    Buddhist don't even consider it a religious matter, rather a civil matter..Islam has believed in marriage since the prophet Mohammed..


    Why this thread is even a religious debate bewilders me, it shouldn't even be a topic of conversation.
    MrMouse, AngrySeahorse and Karl like this.
  13. BDA Peter Johnson (47)

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    For the record, I was raised Roman Catholic, but I support gay marriage.

    I think there are a large number of people in the 21st century that are using their religion to hide their bigotry.
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  14. southsider Arch Winning (36)

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    true but the term "marriage" is christian, why are they lobbying for marriage and not a nikah (muslim) or a nissuin (jewish) why not lobby for civil unions instead?
  15. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    No.

    The term marriage comes from a middle English word stemming from Old French and before that Latin.

    By your logic, you're claiming that Latin, French and the English language are all the property of Christianity.

    We are an English speaking country therefore we use an English word.
  16. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    I understand what you're saying BH but to say that it has no more or no less meaning to someone depending on your religious beliefs is not up to you to say. This is the crux of the issue. It means different things to different people and if I was told that something that I believed in deeply wasn't actually as important I felt it was - I would get defensive.

    The inability of the religous types to argue thier case without sounding bigoted and the inability of the non-religious types to argue their case without trivialising the religious sides beliefs is why this is such a big issue.

    I'm not certain I've made perfect sense there but it's not an easy argument to convey via text only! ;) I'm not having a crack at anyone here.
  17. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    The point is that the couple having a religious wedding can't rationally claim that their wedding is more meaningful than the couple who have a civil wedding because they said their vows before God. Likewise the couple who have a civil wedding can't rationally claim their wedding was more meaningful because their wedding and vows were only about each other and didn't incite a fictitious deity.

    The argument boils down to accepting that society is made up of a wide group of people who believe in different things. One couple's marriage has no impact on another couple's marriage.
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  18. TOCC Guest

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    I don't see how it is trivializing marriage by arguing pro-gay marriage?
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  19. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    Agree in parts. There are some religious types that just make me cringe when talking on this topic and do their cause more harm than good. But it's pretty easy these days to call someone a bigot. I know you're not calling anyone here one. But at what point in someone's life does a belief system that they've held true for decades, become intolerant? This is a rhetorical question obviously.

    Society evolves at an ridiculously quicker pace than religions and their associated belief systems do. So we as a society I think are generally supportive of gay marriage, but we also need to be sensitive to people's religious beliefs. It's to easy to dismiss someone who disagrees on religious grounds as a bigot and in doing so trample on what they believe in. This is just as wrong as depriving someone of a right that they feel they are entitled to. Just saying.
  20. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Dear Mods

    Not wanting to stifle a robust debate, but can we start a Gay Marriage Thread in "Politics", or "Everything Else" and move the relevant ones from this thread to there.
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