New Point System?

[PaarlBok]

I'm not quite convinced that reducing penalties to 2 points and increasing tries to a potential 8 (with a successful conversion) will lead to a huge amount of extra infringements.

I say that is just bull shite and negative PC talking. Works a treat in the Varsity Cup.

 

[nomis]

I'd love to know how the Varsity Cup is going if anyone has be personally watching it. Has there been a huge increase in infringements? When a penalty has been awarded, has there been an increase in kicking for touch (and attempting to score a try), rather than kicking a penalty?

I guess it will all be revealed at the end of the tournament.

 

[PaarlBok]

I'd love to know how the Varsity Cup is going if anyone has be personally watching it. Has there been a huge increase in infringements? When a penalty has been awarded, has there been an increase in kicking for touch (and attempting to score a try), rather than kicking a penalty?

I guess it will all be revealed at the end of the tournament.

Varsity Cup is free flow running from everywhere. You wont see many penalties for posts.

They have a nice site for detail
http://www.varsitycup.co.za/

Top point scorers
http://www.varsitycup.co.za/index.php/matchday/top-point-scorers

Top try scorers
http://www.varsitycup.co.za/index.php/matchday/top-try-scorers

Cards receive
http://www.varsitycup.co.za/index.php/matchday/cards-received

 

[Karl]

In the Thread too many penalties - there was an initial analysis of what happened with this scoring system in the Varsity Cup trial that has already been done - and it was quite counter-intuitive. There was not a massive increase in penalties at all, but there were a lot less penalty kicks at goal, and a lot more points scored from tries. It was quite promising.

Here is some results back from the Varsity cup where they are experimenting with the reduce point system for penalties and more for a conversion

In the Varsity Cup, the conversion is now worth three points, the penalty goal and the drop goal two points.

Summary after 4 rounds:

Tries scored
2011: 39
2012: 50
28.2% increase This is statistically significant

Penalties in game
2011: 183
2012: 193
5.5% increase No significant increase in penalties.

Penalty kicks aimed at goal
2011: 45
2012: 16
64.4% decrease This is hugely significant.

Yellow cards
2011: 3
2012: 3
No change

Total points scored
2011: 359
2012: 379
5.6% increase No significant change, but a difference in how it's comprised, for the better.

Sometimes what happens and what you think will happen are very different.

 

[PaarlBok]

Just want to mention that this years the Varsity Cup is much closer compare to previous years. A team like NMMU use to be a milk cow like TUT. Not anymore they have beat Ikeys (last years champs) at home and Shimlas away from home this year.

 

[nomis]

Nice! PaarlBok and Karl

 

[PaarlBok]

Ja thanks Karl. Interesting stats.

 

[PaarlBok]

Summary after five rounds:
Tries scored2011: 53
2012: 66
24,5% increase
Penalties in game2011: 232
2012: 258
11,2% increase
Penalty kicks aimed at goal
2011: 59
2012: 17
71,2% decrease
Yellow cards 2011: 4
2012: 4
No change
Total points scored 2011: 477
2012: 507
6,3% increase

 

[PaarlBok]

You mean after three rounds, right? And surely that number (17) is wrong, Jantjies alone in the game against the Cheetahs had 9. Or did I get something wrong there!?

The new point system is tested in our Varsity Cup, the results after 5 rounds.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Am I the only person who thinks it's ridiculous that the proposal to improve the penalty situation, is the further favour the team infringing on the running attacking team at the detriment of the attacking team.

I'm sick of hearing about penalty counts and this talk which started in NRL and has now flowed to rugby, saying a team did well considering the penalty count. Unless you are merely stating that being so inferior they had to infringe more to compete, the penalty count is irrelevant.

Make penalties worth more. The penalty goals aren't the problem, they are merely a symptom of the problem, which is the penalty infringements themselves.

 

[Karl]

You're not the first to make the observation that dropping the value of a penalty goal might theoretically make a defending team more likely to infringe - but look at the facts and remember the conversion is now worth 3 and to get those points, you need to score a try. After 5 rounds there is only a 10% increase in penalties, which seems to be up from about 5% after 4 rounds which indicates the 5th round was penalty heavy for some reason. It would be good to get a more detailed analysis of those penalties. Nonetheless, 10% is like a game having 11 penalties instead of 10, not significant at all in the scheme of things when there is over a 70% decrease in shots at goal and a 25% increase in tries scored.

Be interesting to watch this trial progress and see more trials at higher levels.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Indeed but also part of the reason teams take the points is that guarantee of points as opposed to risking attack and the defending team infringing until they get away with it.
Regardless of what they implemented in any game of value, the teams are going to take the points on offer.

 

[PaarlBok]

Indeed but also part of the reason teams take the points is that guarantee of points as opposed to risking attack and the defending team infringing until they get away with it.
Regardless of what they implemented in any game of value, the teams are going to take the points on offer.

I disagree totally from that. Since bonus points for four tries has been implemented in rugby, you'll see most matches ending in one of the teams trying to get that 4th try, and thats in all levels of SA rugby. It cost the Bokke a semi spot last year.

 

[Karl]

See, that bonus point idea is another way to encourage more tries as opposed to kicks at goal.

 

[Karl]

Summary after five rounds:
Tries scored2011: 53
2012: 66
24,5% increase
Penalties in game2011: 232
2012: 258
11,2% increase
Penalty kicks aimed at goal
2011: 59
2012: 17
71,2% decrease
Yellow cards 2011: 4
2012: 4
No change
Total points scored 2011: 477
2012: 507
6,3% increase

How many rounds played now?

 

[PaarlBok]

How many rounds played now?

They final was on monday. In the final no penalty even in front of the poles was taken. Most went for lineouts and only a few they ask for a scrum. Pretty sure it worked a treat and a big success.

 

[Karl]

So how many rounds were there and is it possible to get an update on the stats above?

 

[PaarlBok]

Pretty sure they'll update the stats on the ref site
http://www.sareferees.com/

7 rounds plus semi and final
http://www.varsitycup.co.za/index.php/matchday/varsity-cup-fixtures

Again I watched spesific for this in the final and was actually surprise to see Tukkies trailing at some stage with three points and not taking kick at goal knowing that Maties dominate them in the 1st phases at that stage. They lost three oppertunities for points this way. The first try of the match came from not taking the shot at goal but opting for a lineout and backline move to score from there.

 

[Cave Dweller]

It might be that the coaches are under instruction to entertain and throw the ball around. Not saying it is so just another point of view. Are the players amateurs?

 

[PaarlBok]

It might be that the coaches are under instruction to entertain and throw the ball around. Not saying it is so just another point of view. Are the players amateurs?

Nope they are contracted these days. Amateur will be in the second division and I can tell you they had a packed 15,000 crowd in the Stadium with live on TV sure under huge pressure. I can promise you the attendances right through this competition was higher then the average Aus and NZ S15 crowds. This competition has grow a mile since starting and fast becoming a gold mine for producing young talented players for SA. A few of the teams like Tukkies had a lot of Vodacom Bull players , ditto UJ.