New Point System?

[Karl]

Pretty sure they'll update the stats on the ref site
http://www.sareferees.com/

7 rounds plus semi and final
http://www.varsitycup.co.za/index.php/matchday/varsity-cup-fixtures

Again I watched spesific for this in the final and was actually surprise to see Tukkies trailing at some stage with three points and not taking kick at goal knowing that Maties dominate them in the 1st phases at that stage. They lost three oppertunities for points this way. The first try of the match came from not taking the shot at goal but opting for a lineout and backline move to score from there.

Thanks mate. Where on the SA Ref site is that? Couldn't find it.

 

[laps]

I agree with the concept of promoting try scoring... I think the current points system is fine, however, I believe they should introduce a new type of penalty... They have long arm and short arm, they should have something additional where the team has the option to tap, kick for touch (and keep put in to lineout) or scrum but NO penalty shot...

Obviously this is at refs discression, ie one offense repeated several times can result in a penaly, but I hardly think a props elbow hitting the ground is cause for 3 points... If the front row engages early it is only a short arm, so why should their foot slipping or a loose bind be cause for 3 points...

All im saying is certain infringements should not result in a shot at goal, unless they are repeated, or the ref feels like a team was denied an opportunity for scoring points (such as tackle not releasing).

 

[Karl]

Look at the results from the Trial. The Trial needs to be expanded to a higher level of the game. I think this could be a great change, particularly with the 4 try bonus point. Then we need to get 80% of scrums actually producing the ball the first time.

 

[PaarlBok]

Look at the results from the Trial. The Trial needs to be expanded to a higher level of the game. I think this could be a great change, particularly with the 4 try bonus point. Then we need to get 80% of scrums actually producing the ball the first time.

Some interesting stats regarding the scrums this year
http://www.sareferees.com/News/scrumming-statistics/2829607/

Scrumming statistics
12 Apr 2012 The falling scrum has been an increasing worry to rugby's law-makers and others, spectators for example. For one thing every scrum that falls is dangerous.
SANZAR this year set out to reduce the resetting of scrums, partly because it is boring. In fact SANZAR wanted the ball in and out of scrums in one movement 70% of the time. It hoped to achieve this in two ways - getting the co-operation of players and coaches and getting their referees upskilled in dealing with scrums.
The three national scrum coaches - Patricio Noriega in Australia, Mike Cronn in New Zealand and Balie Swart in South Africa - were charged with working with teams and referees to improve scrumming outcomes. Referees do work remarkably hard at scrumming - with coaches, with teams and with individual players.
In 2011 the percentage of scrum success was 45%.
Lets look at some stats for the first seven weeks of Super Rugby this year:
Scrums: 662
Resets: 112
Penalties: 110
Free kicks: 46
Resets%: 16,9%
Penalties%: 16,6%
Free kicks%: 6,9%
That means that on 59,5% of the time the ball was put into a scrum and was immediately play able. That is a long way up from 2011 but still short of the 70% target though 83,1% of scrums are not reset.
Mind you, the most annoying reset of a scrum is the one that happens before the scrum has even gone down - those stupid things like not having heads in the right places.
It's hard to apportion blame in the matter of malformed scrums because you do not scrum on your own, but penalties awarded to apportion blame.
The log for penalties at scrums looks like this, with the Bulls the worst offenders:
14 Bulls
10 Reds, Highlanders
9 Cheetahs, Crusaders
8 Hurricanes
7 Blues, Chiefs, Rebels, Sharks
6 Stormers
5 Brumbies
4 Lions, Waratahs
3 Force
Australian sides usually carry the burden of blame for poor scrumming but the penalty statistics give the lie to that this year. They average just under 6, New Zealand teams just over 8, the South African teams 8 exactly.
The Force have the best record as far as conceding penalties in concerned and yet it was one of their matches in which a team's scrumming was the worst. They played the Reds and of the 8 Force scrums, 3 were reset, 6 collapsed, 2 were freekicked and 2 were penalised.
In five of the matches there were uncontested scrums. That is a horrible blight on the game. There was a plague of uncontested scrums in France and they, as is allowed by the IRB, added an extra player to the bench with the proviso that he was a prop. This has eliminated uncontested scrums in France.
The matches with no resets were:
Bulls vs Sharks
Lions vs Cheetahs
Chiefs vs Blues
Stormers vs Sharks
Sharks vs Lions
Hurricanes vs Cheetahs
Brumbies vs Sharks
The match with the best scrumming record by far was Sharks vs Lions. In this match there were no resets, no collapses, no penalties and no free kicks. It is the best possible scrum result.
Mark Lawrence refereed that match, which may well be because of his hard and skilful work. But in essence it is the players who have to comply. Bryce Lawrence refereed a match in which there were three resets in 14 scrums; later he had a match, Rebels vs Blues, in which there were 6 resets, 14 collapses in 18 scrums.
There are people who throw up their hands and suggest rugby league bits of scrummaging and even uncontested scrums. Heaven forbid. Imagine how much character would be plundered from the game if that were to happen.
Perhaps, to save the props, rugby needs to go back to the basics of scrummaging. There was the famous change to policing in New York that started with urinating in public and broken windows. Perhaps that is what needs to be done at the scrum.

 

[PaarlBok]

Thanks mate. Where on the SA Ref site is that? Couldn't find it.

They put up till round 5. Probably will in future , we can always ask them on the site.

 

[Cave Dweller]

That site had a service. Looks more viewer friendly now. Its a great site one of the few sites purely from a refs point of view and discussions of controversial decisions. Most of them discussed in here. Those who have not seen it should check it out

 

[Cave Dweller]

An interesting stat is that the eight-point converted try would have had a different result in only two out of the 10 games.

In other words, the result in terms of winning or losing would have been different in only two out of the 10 games if the eight-point try and two points per penalty kick and drop-goal applied.

http://www.sareferees.com/News/varsity-cup-stats-round-5/2829582/

 

[Scott Allen]

A new idea for a change to the points system (at least I haven't seen it suggested before) http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/should-we-change-rugbys-point-scoring-system/

 

[Braveheart81]

I think the no conversion idea is interesting.

The time lost out of a game is frustrating and I think something like this or just stopping the clock after a try is scored is worth considering.

The clock is already stopped when the TMO is involved and it makes little sense that the clock is then restarted once a try is awarded and the goalkicker starts faffing around planning for their kick.