New Zealand v Australia - Auckland - 23 August 2014
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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you can nearly understand Dean's want of a conservative gameplan to limit the opportunity of blow outs like this
But I kind of disagree, I was disappointed with the lack of "rip in" attitude, but they can do it, just not at the intensity required week in/week out against the best side in the world
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
That's a fairly inaccurate statement. Have you just arrived here from the past?
lewisr
Bill McLean (32)
[q uote="KOB1987, post: 653556, member: 8027"]just read Bob Dwyers piece. He reckons:
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Horne
12. Kuridrani
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Beale
15. Folau[/quote]
Gee bob is obsessed with having Tevita at twelve. I thought we put the crash ball 12 to bed? Or are we wanting to emulate warren gatland and wales?
Sure it's nice to have a big bloke wearing 12 like nonu but unfortunately we don't have anyone like him who also offers the second playmaker role. I actually think To'omua is doing a more than satisfactory job so why chop and change everything completely?
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9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Horne
12. Kuridrani
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Beale
15. Folau[/quote]
Gee bob is obsessed with having Tevita at twelve. I thought we put the crash ball 12 to bed? Or are we wanting to emulate warren gatland and wales?
Sure it's nice to have a big bloke wearing 12 like nonu but unfortunately we don't have anyone like him who also offers the second playmaker role. I actually think To'omua is doing a more than satisfactory job so why chop and change everything completely?
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Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Lets do it.
Work it up against the Saffers and Argies and unleash it against the blackness.
Not sure how it solves our disadvantage in the pigs.
At least Beale was in good form. I haven't seen enough to suggest Higgers is even near anything you could call form.
If he performs well again off the bench then he starts to enter the frame IMO.
.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Strong doesn't always equal explosive and carrying v. set piece are two wildly different skill sets.
Not trying to defend Simmo - he was very poor. More than anything else I'm feeling incredulous about the fact that since Mowen has left we have one (one and half if you count Kev, I guess) players that our coaching staff trusts to call the line out at Test level.
Before Mowen left we only had two that I'm really aware of, how the fuck does this happen when we have five professional franchises?
These guys aren't your local club team jamming in 30 minutes of set piece practice on the back end of a training session. They're full time professionals, most of which who have been playing for nearly a decade by the time they make the step up to Super Rugby for the very first time.
It's a skill set that can be worked on off the field as well so recovery is honestly just not a good excuse for competent line out calling, or lack thereof. In my mind both starting locks in a professional franchise should be veritable line out fucking scholars and at least one of the back rowers as well, but maybe I'm just crazy.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
That ignores the role that the backs play in facilitating the forward play.
If White is fucking around getting the ball out of the breakdown (providing the platform has been set), then throws a poor pass to Beale who makes a poor decision in directing the play from there and a player gets tackled behind the gain line, the supporter has to double back and work twice as hard just to retain the ball. The next phase is then under pressure.
It's hard for forwards to charge over the gain line and secure front foot ball if the direction provided to them has them receiving the ball slower than necessary and charging into a brick wall that's set and waiting.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Lest say that in the time Beale has he can run 10m.
I he runs 9 forward and 1 across he's closer to his pigs than if he runs 9 across and 1 forward.
Doesn't make him solely to blame but it illustrates the problem - I think.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Probably because they had to run backwards to get to most of them.
I'm not saying they're beyond reproach. I'm saying it's a naive view to ignore the role that the 9 and 10 play in the team and how the forwards play.
If Beale and White are directing the team into a brick wall of defense set and waiting for them, time after time, how exactly do they secure front foot ball? I'm intrigued to know?
Tah and feathered
Watty Friend (18)
What the Kiwis thought on both sides players performances
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11313795&ref=rss
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11313795&ref=rss
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Can't really argue with their assessment of Australia and to be honest I think they were gentle on a lot of guys (or 5/10 for them is below standard, and not standard).
Also was wondering over the weekend why Tevita didn't get a look in on McCabe's wing spot as he'd likely have a bit more impact there and Pat would be better positional cover off of the bench.
Also was wondering over the weekend why Tevita didn't get a look in on McCabe's wing spot as he'd likely have a bit more impact there and Pat would be better positional cover off of the bench.
KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
I'm not arguing the point, I am fully aware that bad decisions and execution by backs can create extra workload for forwards..it will happen again in any team no matter who is playing in what position.
But to largely absolve our (in this instance) 4,5 & 6 of any responsibility of their lower than expected work rates because of a few bad plays by the backs is just downright wrong..
But to largely absolve our (in this instance) 4,5 & 6 of any responsibility of their lower than expected work rates because of a few bad plays by the backs is just downright wrong..
Dwyer has been hammering on about Kuridrani at 12 for ages and it clearly isn't going to happen.
To'omua will stay at 12 but I think people are really deceiving themselves if they think he's been good in test rugby this season. He was only average against France and he has had two mediocre tests against the All Blacks. He's making errors and creating almost nothing in attack. He's been charged with doing a fair amount of the kicking game in general play and that has been poor. He hasn't been decisive in attack and is equally as guilty as Beale of crabbing across field. Maybe things will improve when Phipps and Foley come into 9 and 10 but To'omua has a lot to work on.
At this stage To'omua is a second playmaker in name only. He's not actually doing any of that. The only aspect of his game that has been decent is he has made some strong tackles in defence.
Our 9, 10 and 12 have been completely ineffectual in the two Bledisloes. The first was in tough conditions but the second one there weren't a lot of excuses. I think To'omua will be the only one of that three to retain his starting spot and there'll be a hope that once Phipps and Foley are starting, To'omua will also improve.
Our catch 22 though is that once Beale gets out to that wider playmaker position he is creating opportunities. If he could tackle, he'd probably be the 12. His defence has proved such a liability though I can't see how he can play there apart from off the bench.
It seems that McKenzie is more inclined to finish the game with Phipps, Foley and Beale at 9, 10, 12 than he is with Phipps, Beale/Foley, To'omua based on the five tests this year.
Joe Blow
Peter Sullivan (51)
What Quade does so well is feed his forward runners. He is acutely aware of what is going on and where the opportunities are several phases ahead.
Particularly at the Reds he feeds the forward runners, putting them into holes and half holes getting go forward across the advantage line.
Then he is very good at deciding when to go wide and he can do it quickly.
Mind you Quade has his issues but I reckon Link has him firmly in mind as his long term 10. Beale was the closest as far as skill sets go in the squad.
I'd guess thats why he chose him at 10.
Particularly at the Reds he feeds the forward runners, putting them into holes and half holes getting go forward across the advantage line.
Then he is very good at deciding when to go wide and he can do it quickly.
Mind you Quade has his issues but I reckon Link has him firmly in mind as his long term 10. Beale was the closest as far as skill sets go in the squad.
I'd guess thats why he chose him at 10.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
No one "largely absolved" our forwards of anything.
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