New Zealand v Wallabies, Eden Park, Sat 22nd October

[Brumby Runner]

Poor Speight, he finally gets another crack but again with Foley at 10, don't think he'll be seeing much ball and that is only going to further strengthen the perception he is not a test level player.

Please start him outside Cooper!!

I think the main game plan for Henry will be to chase Hodge's kicks and put pressure on the Accountant to stop the break out from the back. I don't think he will be required to chase Foley's kicks as they are charged down for ABs' tries.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Foley is a horrible defender, especially early this year. Although has looked better defending at 12. I'd say Cooper and Foley are on par.

I think Phipps at 9 has worked in Foley's favour as well as being the goal-kicker. These are the only 2 reasons I can see him pushing Cooper to the bench.

Think you have fallen for the urban myth that is put out by many on this forum. Foley was still responsible for missed tackles, at least one of which led to a try, against the last two oppositions.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Weird :
- Foley at 10 (everyone's been saying he's not a 12)
- Hodge at 12 (which 90% of the people here want)
- Speight on the wing (90% of the people on here have been saying we need a proper winger),

What you meant to say was:

"It just shits me when Cheika doesn't pick the team I would have picked".

Do you really think the scoreline is now going to blow out because of these selections?

Well, not because of Hodge at 12. A bit problematic with Henry on the wing, but at his best he would more than hold his own. I certainly think the score difference would be lower if Quade started at 10 and Fardy at 6.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Foley's form has been substantially better in the last couple of games.

Whilst I would have retained Cooper it's somewhat ridiculous that people are saying they feel sorry for other players who have been selected purely on the basis that Foley is the 10.

Last season punters were saying Cheika set Cooper up to fail when he selected him to play 10 at Eden Park with White at 9.

You could use the same logic to say that Cheika is setting Foley up to fail this time.

The faux outrage is all a bit pointless.

Hey, BH, I am one of the posters who lamented the effect Foley at 10 is likely to have on Hodge in his first start at 12. Not outrage at all, but bitter disappointment. Just like the sort of disappointment many NSW posters would feel if Foley were to be replaced in the starting side.

 

[dru]

I was a bit perplexed with Simmons on the pine. Not really an impact finisher. BUT we start with some reasonable line out options - at least for a Wallaby team. When Pocock comes on this could see something of a reversal. Hence not so silly to have Simmons available.

Mumm over Fardy again, what is going on at training?

Still no Slipper - presume that there is a playing style/game plan issue here - doesn't play as tight as Cheika wants for a prop? I like Slippers hands, not exactly at Dane Coles level but one of better front rows for handling.

Hodge to 12 is very interesting. I guess that Cheika feels he is ready to take the trainer wheels off and move out of wing to his "proper" slot. I'll be very keen to see how this goes - have to say I find the limitation of no second playmaker concerning. The amount of ball that Karevi gets could reduce dramatically, and we don't want him coming in to look for it - would just lead to confusing at 12.

Like many others, I would have swapped DHP and Folau. Another quiet game for Folau cant be good for him.

 

[Braveheart81]

Hey, BH, I am one of the posters who lamented the effect Foley at 10 is likely to have on Hodge in his first start at 12. Not outrage at all, but bitter disappointment. Just like the sort of disappointment many NSW posters would feel if Foley were to be replaced in the starting side.

Do you not think that bitter disappointment is a bit overwrought?

I would have kept Cooper at 10 and wouldn't have felt any disappointment if Foley had been dropped to the bench.

Hodge is going to have a tough time in his first game at 12 because we are playing the All Blacks at Eden Park. I don't think that gets any easier or harder on the back of who starts at 10. They both have issues, neither is in outstanding form (Cooper is certainly in better form), Cooper has a tendency to capitulate at Eden Park and Foley has had a tendency to have a shocker in 2016.

The only speculation that is hard to accept as being at all likely about Cooper and Foley for tomorrow is the potential for them to have an amazing game and ignite the backline around them.

 

[chasmac]

Wish I had your confidence. But I disagree here. Foley at 10 will get the ball the majority of the time for exits and is consistently poor in this regard.

Against England we had To'omua, Foley and DHP - they kicked poorly, DHP and To'omua despite being better kickers were rarely used.

I am hoping Hodge is the difference and gets himself into first receiver often but I have my doubts that will happen.

Time will tell. Surely they do more than a few run throughs at training each week.

 

[chasmac]

Firstly, since you're able to recall what 90% of people want here, you should be perfectly capable of recalling the England series and the first two Bledisloe tests.

In case you forgot, Foley was just as much a "nota10" 3 months ago as he is "nota12" now.

Those of us who aren't blinded by Foley-love remember this.

Then they recall statements made by the head coach over the last few weeks about "Standards" and how they "Have to apply across the board" in reference to various players being dropped.

Now we are seeing the coach continue to reward abysmal / anonymous peformances of his favorite player who lead us to 3-straight losses to England (with ~60% possession) and has been so unbelievably below par it's not funny.

But the thing is, after 6 years of Robbie Deans. It is funny now.

I read the team and laughed rather loudly. I wasn't shocked, surprised or bewildered as i'm very much used to clueless, biased selections that have become a staple of the Wallaby diet for the better part of a decade.

Whats your team then.

 

[galumay]

More than anything else its an opportunity for players to show how they rate against the best, at home, Foley gets a chance to demonstrate a return to form at 10 - but if the forwards are not winning up front no 10 will have a great game. Timani gets a chance to prove his worth further at 8 and Hodge gets to play in his preferred position at 12.

I reckon the fact that the Bledisloe is gone and the RC is over, lifts a lot of weight of expectation off players, everyone knows the AB's will win by plenty unless they have a shocker and the Wallabies play at 120% of their skill and potential - so it frees up everyone to just go out, have a crack and enjoy the game. Chieka gets to see a few different players in various positions and I think anything better than a loss by 20-30 points will be seen as a positive.

I also suspect part of Cheika's thinking was that if the Wallabies are really going to have a crack at the AB's it needs a fresh 10 and with the prior setup of Cooper & Foley they both really needed to play 80 minutes. By dropping Cooper to the bench and moving Hodge to 12 and Foley to 10 he can swap Foley out at 50-60 minutes and freshen up the backline.

 

[cyclopath]

Hey, BH, I am one of the posters who lamented the effect Foley at 10 is likely to have on Hodge in his first start at 12. Not outrage at all, but bitter disappointment. Just like the sort of disappointment many NSW posters would feel if Foley were to be replaced in the starting side.

Most posters are surprised he is there, so I am not sure who you are talking about.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Do you not think that bitter disappointment is a bit overwrought?

The only speculation that is hard to accept as being at all likely about Cooper and Foley for tomorrow is the potential for them to have an amazing game and ignite the backline around them.

Yeah - bitter is a fair bit over the top, and really not at all how I feel.

I did preface my earlier post re Foley's impact on Hodge by saying that I would feel sorry for Hodge if Foley plays as he has so far this year at 10. With so little variety in his game in the test against England, the rush defense just had to concentrate on getting into the 12/13 faces as quickly as possible to disrupt any chance of a creative backline attack. I predict the same fate for Hodge tomorrow unfortunately (for Hodge). But I am prepared to concede a possibility of Foley having an amazing game and this backline having a strong impact on the game. I just think right now that that is a very small possibility.

My main complaint is that there seems to be no logical reason for Cheika and Bernie to select Foley at 10 over Quade based on form this year.

 

[Braveheart81]

Our backline looked much better in the 3rd England test when we had a ballplayer at 12 (To'omua).

If Hodge is to be that ballplayer then the same situation exists tomorrow night.

 

[Brumby Runner]

To my eye, the real reason our backline looked better in the third England test, and for that matter in any test this year where they have been ok, has been the improving form of Kerevi as he gains confidence at test level. He is again our biggest hope of putting some action into the backline in Bledisloe 3. I believe he would have a better chance of doing that outside Cooper, whether he (Kerevi) plays 13 or 12.

 

[chasmac]

There is so much angst here about the back line that no one has been able to put any effort into whinging about the choice of referee.
Come on people, bend your backs.
Or are you all out having a long lunch?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Interesting selections and if we're given no chance (especially by fans like me) there is no harm in trying a few things. I'm liking the selection of Timani at eight and Hodge at 12, though I would have preferred Cooper at 10. Nothing to lose boys, might as well put all the chips on red and go berserk.

 

[KOB1987]

More than anything else its an opportunity for players to show how they rate against the best, at home, Foley gets a chance to demonstrate a return to form at 10 - but if the forwards are not winning up front no 10 will have a great game. Timani gets a chance to prove his worth further at 8 and Hodge gets to play in his preferred position at 12.

I reckon the fact that the Bledisloe is gone and the RC is over, lifts a lot of weight of expectation off players, everyone knows the AB's will win by plenty unless they have a shocker and the Wallabies play at 120% of their skill and potential - so it frees up everyone to just go out, have a crack and enjoy the game. Chieka gets to see a few different players in various positions and I think anything better than a loss by 20-30 points will be seen as a positive.

I also suspect part of Cheika's thinking was that if the Wallabies are really going to have a crack at the AB's it needs a fresh 10 and with the prior setup of Cooper & Foley they both really needed to play 80 minutes. By dropping Cooper to the bench and moving Hodge to 12 and Foley to 10 he can swap Foley out at 50-60 minutes and freshen up the backline.

Now that's the sort of rational thinking that I like. I'm not saying that's necessarily the motive but it sure beats just having a hissy fit because so and so was or wasn't picked in the starting side.

I don't really care who gets picked, there are reasons players are picked or aren't that we don't know, we are just onlookers. I'm completely open to criticizing a performance after the event, just not before it.

 

[Braveheart81]

To my eye, the real reason our backline looked better in the third England test, and for that matter in any test this year where they have been ok, has been the improving form of Kerevi as he gains confidence at test level. He is again our biggest hope of putting some action into the backline in Bledisloe 3. I believe he would have a better chance of doing that outside Cooper, whether he (Kerevi) plays 13 or 12.

Kerevi didn't play the third test against England.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Bit harsh to lump those 3 losses solely on Foley's shoulders. Sure, he did not play well, and I'm not sure why he is picked at 10 now, but I think there were plenty of players who performed below par in those Tests.

and still hold spots

 

[chasmac]

The idea that Cooper/Hodge is better than Foley/Hodge is not the key to this backline.
The question to ask is;
Can Foley keep Kerevi in the game like Cooper did last start?
Can Folau get himself into the game like he used to off Beale and Foley?
It shouldn't be up to Hodge to make the difference on attack, this should fall to Folau, Kerevi, and Speight in the 12 13 and 14 Channels respectively.
Priorities for Hodge should be exits, defence, and finally facilitator on attack.
I would dearly love to see Folau taking on the line without using up the wingers space.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Wow, the bench or should I say Finishers must be really looking forward to entering the fray at 50 - 70 minutes.

To get the call, go from zero to hero immediately and actually make the difference.

I wish them well.