November Internationals not involving Australia

[Scooter]

TV coverage for this week's internationals
Sunday 27 November (AEDT)
1am Fiji v Japan Eurosport
1:25am England v Argentina beIN SPORTS 1
1:30am Scotland v Georgia beIN SPORTS 3
4:25am Wales v South Africa beIN SPORTS 1
4:30am Ireland v Wallabies beIN SPORTS 3
7am France v All Blacks beIN SPORTS 3

Also for those who are interested replay of last week's Tonga v USA match at 12am Saturday (aka midnight Friday night) on Eurosport.

 

[Quick Hands]

I must say that the 2016 November international season has been the best that I can remember. The standard of rugby is high and most games have been quite close. Worldwide, rugby is looking good.

 

[Dan54]

Agree completely QH, plenty of quality rugby to keep our interest up not just the Wallaby or All Blacks tests.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Fekitoa suspended for one week, Cane's hearing is later today.

EDIT: Cane has (rightly IMO) been cleared, article below updated accordingly.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11753199

Sanchez found to have committed an act of foul play but it's OK, the guy he struck was impeding him:

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/sanchez-free-to-face-england/

Can of worms decision, that one.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Opta Facts

* France have claimed almost twice as many wins against New Zealand as any other northern hemisphere side (12, England 7).
* The All Blacks were the first ever side that France played an international rugby match against, back on New Year's Day 1906.
* The last meeting between theses sides was at the 2015 Rugby World Cup when New Zealand scored more points against Les Bleus (62) than any side has ever managed.
* New Zealand have won 30 of their last 31 matches in Europe (L1 v England in 2012).
* New Zealand have scored 77 tries in 13 games in 2016, no other side has scored more than 50 (France have scored 21 in nine games).
* Virimi Vakatawa and Wesley Fofana have both made six clean breaks so far in these Autumn Internationals, no player from any country has made more (Malakai Fekitoa and Semesa Rokoduguni also 6).
* France are yet to misplace a lineout throw in their two games in November so far Guilhem Guirado landing 14/14 and Camille Chat 6/6.
* Charles Ollivon has completed all 23 tackles he has attempted in France's two games so far this Autumn, only Jonny Gray has completed more without missing one (38/38, his brother Richie Gray has completed 23/23).
* Six players in France's squad for their Autumn Internationals made their international debut against New Zealand; Rabah Slimani, Eddy Ben Arous, Alexandre Flanquart, Camille Lopez, Jean-Marc Doussain, Damien Chouly.
* Beauden Barrett (283) needs nine points to overtake Carlos Spencer on the All Blacks' top points scorers list, moving up to fifth spot.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/match.cfm?season=2017&competition=3&match=7588

 

[Highlander35]

* Charles Ollivon has completed all 23 tackles he has attempted in France's two games so far this Autumn, only Jonny Gray has completed more without missing one (38/38, his brother Richie Gray has completed 23/23).

Gray brothers for BILs lock duo

 

[Twoilms]

Regarding the high tackles in the AB v Ireland match;

If World Rugby actually gave a shit about discouraging dangerous, concussion causing tackles all of the high tackles from both teams would have resulted in red cards during the game. They talk a big talk about reforming the game to make it safer and then inconsistently apply limp dick punishments. All or nothing i say.

 

[zer0]

Regarding the high tackles in the AB v Ireland match;

If World Rugby actually gave a shit about discouraging dangerous, concussion causing tackles all of the high tackles from both teams would have resulted in red cards during the game. They talk a big talk about reforming the game to make it safer and then inconsistently apply limp dick punishments. All or nothing i say.

Problem is that if they define high tackles by the exact letter of the law, and give out red cards for those tackles, then you'll start with XV's and end with Sevens. After all, the laws define dangerous tackles as:

10.4 Dangerous play and misconduct
(e) Dangerous tackling. A player must not tackle an opponent early, late or dangerously.
Sanction: Penalty kick

A player must not tackle (or try to tackle) an opponent above the line of the shoulders even if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders. A tackle around the opponent’s neck or head is dangerous play.
Sanction: Penalty kick

If every tackle that crosses the line of the shoulders results in a red card, then Fekitoa would've been sent off. As would Sexton and Kearney. There would be plenty of further examples from all sides during the weekend.

 

[Twoilms]

^^^^^
Only initially, while players learnt to adjust to the new way of governing and then they wouldn't because the disincentive is too high.

Anyway, a hard-line on existing rules sounds a lot better than the purported 'no tackles above the waste' rule being considered.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^^ Will this hard line be like the focus on Halfbacks feeding the the ball to the scrum down the centreline of said scrum?

Think that was a key focus directive from the IRB for Referees back in 2014 or so. IIRC that particular directive lasted about 5 weeks before the Undernourished Yappy Cheating Runt halfbacks reverted to type and recommenced throwing the ball under their props feet, and Sir stopped penalising them for doing so.

 

[Twoilms]

Presumably you wouldn't call a directive that lasts 5 weeks a hard-line. Soft, floppy line maybe?

 

[Brumby Runner]

^^^^ Will this hard line be like the focus on Halfbacks feeding the the ball to the scrum down the centreline of said scrum?

Think that was a key focus directive from the IRB for Referees back in 2014 or so. IIRC that particular directive lasted about 5 weeks before the Undernourished Yappy Cheating Runt halfbacks reverted to type and recommenced throwing the ball under their props feet, and Sir stopped penalising them for doing so.

HJ, I'm sure I recall an amendment to the scrum feed directive, that it need not be to the centreline of the front rows but has to be in a straight line. Which I read to mean that the halfback, if he's slightly facing his own side of the scrum(as they all do), can feed the ball towards his side so long as it goes in a straight line.

Maybe I'm wrong with my take on it, but I'm pretty sure that it's exactly what is happening in practice.

 

[Dan54]

That would explain it BR, cheers for that so I won't keep saying that halfbacks are cheating yappy little pricks, just yappy little pricks!!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Problem is that if they define high tackles by the exact letter of the law, and give out red cards for those tackles, then you'll start with XV's and end with Sevens. After all, the laws define dangerous tackles as:



If every tackle that crosses the line of the shoulders results in a red card, then Fekitoa would've been sent off. As would Sexton and Kearney. There would be plenty of further examples from all sides during the weekend.

The laws you quote define the sanction: penalty.
If, as was the case with Fekitoa, the tackle was foul from the moment he set himself to make it that's red as the subsequent sanction shows. Much as i hate to point to a league precedent - given the availability of replays etc the officials who failed to act on it should be "dropped to reserve grade" - and if World Rugby were fair dinkum they would be.
If i were a kiwi I'd be more interested in WTF possessed Fekitoa, who is an exceptional player and would have made the tackle easily, to do it the way he did: It was at Ma' Nonu or will skelton level of stupidity - and I have not seen that from him before.

 

[Twoilms]

If i were a kiwi I'd be more interested in WTF possessed Fekitoa, who is an exceptional player and would have made the tackle easily, to do it the way he did: It was at Ma' Nonu or will skelton level of stupidity - and I have not seen that from him before.

Fekitoa is about the only player in the AB squad who is actually a bit shite. Him and J. Savea both overrated.

 

[zer0]

The laws you quote define the sanction: penalty.
If, as was the case with Fekitoa, the tackle was foul from the moment he set himself to make it that's red as the subsequent sanction shows. Much as i hate to point to a league precedent - given the availability of replays etc the officials who failed to act on it should be "dropped to reserve grade" - and if World Rugby were fair dinkum they would be.
If i were a kiwi I'd be more interested in WTF possessed Fekitoa, who is an exceptional player and would have made the tackle easily, to do it the way he did: It was at Ma' Nonu or will skelton level of stupidity - and I have not seen that from him before.

Yes, but Twoilms was suggesting that all high tackles become instant red cards for a set amount of time. The definition for a high tackle would, presumably, be the existing definition as it is in the laws, hence why I quoted it. I'm arguing against such a strict definition, and sanction, as it would result in every other tackle being a red card. Even just strictly applying the definition by itself, and dishing out penalities left right and centre, would result in an awfully sanatised match.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yes, but Twoilms was suggesting that all high tackles become instant red cards for a set amount of time. The definition for a high tackle would, presumably, be the existing definition as it is in the laws, hence why I quoted it. I'm arguing against such a strict definition, and sanction, as it would result in every other tackle being a red card. Even just strictly applying the definition by itself, and dishing out penalities left right and centre, would result in an awfully sanatised match.

My apologies.

Fekitoa is about the only player in the AB squad who is actually a bit shite. Him and J. Savea both overrated.

Agree re Savea but i rate(d) Fekitoa

 

[zer0]

AB's team named:

1. Joe Moody
2. Dane Coles
3. Owen Franks
4. Brodie Retallick
5. Samuel Whitelock
6. Jerome Kaino
7. Matt Todd
8. Kieran Read (C)
9. TJ Perenara
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Julian Savea
12. Ryan Crotty
13. Anton Lienert-Brown
14. Waisake Naholo
15. Israel Dagg

16. Codie Taylor
17. Wyatt Crockett
18. Charlie Faumuina
19. Scott Barrett
20. Ardie Savea
21. Aaron Smith
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Rieko Ioane

Am much dissapoint at their giving J.Savea and Naholo another chance to fail as a unit, yet again. On the other hand, I'm glad to see Todd given another run. He should've earned far, far more caps than he has. R.Ioane is also poised for a jail-breakout from the bench.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

France: 15 Brice Dulin, 14 Noa Nakaitaci, 13 Rémi Lamerat, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Virimi Vakatawa, 10 Camille Lopez, 9 Maxime Machenaud, 8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Kevin Gourdon, 6 Charles Ollivon, 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Sébastian Vahaamahina, 3 Uini Atonio, 2 Guilhem Guirado (c), 1 Xavier Chiocci. Replacements: 16 Camille Chat, 17 Cyril Baille, 18 Rabah Slimani, 19 Julien Le Devedec, 20 Damien Chouly, 21 Baptiste Serin, 22 Jean-Marc Doussain, 23 Gaël Fickou

Dulin for Spedding, Lopez for Doussain & Chiocci for Baille.

 

[Highlander35]

Wales