NSW AAGPS 2017

[BRUMBIEJACK]

Sometimes using real words makes more sense.

Thanks for picking up the grammar. the problem for 'mixing up' a GPS/CAS trial game round (and even more marked for ISA) is the disparity b/w the numbers of teams that each school can produce across age groups. In the CAS only Knox and Waverley still have large rugby programs in terms of team numbers. When they don't play each other they both have to spread their teams across Sydney looking for games. Even more of a problem for GPS teams in a one-round competition I would have thought.

 

[formerflanker]

A key ingredient in this mix of schools, competitions, ARU priorities, and the rugby landscape nationally, is the fact that the private schools are independent schools. Each is free to structure its sporting program around the school's own priorities. Those priorities are driven by a huge mix of governance issues, student needs, parental involvement, and old boy pressure.
Just expecting each GPS or CAS or ISA school to do what's best for rugby is not a viable position to take.
Hence, the ARU should be driving a country-wide program of grassroots rugby renewal to build long term playing numbers and the quality of coaching.

 

[Quick Hands]

A key ingredient in this mix of schools, competitions, ARU priorities, and the rugby landscape nationally, is the fact that the private schools are independent schools. Each is free to structure its sporting program around the school's own priorities. Those priorities are driven by a huge mix of governance issues, student needs, parental involvement, and old boy pressure.
Just expecting each GPS or CAS or ISA school to do what's best for rugby is not a viable position to take.
Hence, the ARU should be driving a country-wide program of grassroots rugby renewal to build long term playing numbers and the quality of coaching.

Amen brother.

 

[Azzuri]

Hence, the ARU should be driving a country-wide program of grassroots rugby renewal to build long term playing numbers and the quality of coaching.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.....

The general malaise affecting grassroots rugby is not new and if you are waiting for the ARU to ease its well padded behind off the Chesterfield wingback and dedicate something more than the time it took to conceive and print their recent glossy brochure on the future of the game, you'll be waiting a long time.

To be fair I don't think they lack the desire, but for a host of reasons they do seem to lack the ability to generate the sort of tribal enthusiasm/supporter base required for a sport to garner the grassroots support it needs to grow. Their lack of financial and people resources to make the step change that's required is also sadly missing.

To this point the ARU has abrogated the majority of its responsibility to broaden the base and support grassroots rugby to clubs run by volunteers and private schools funded heavily by hard working parents who pay thousands of dollars a year for the privilege of having their lads educated by these schools and by extension offered opportunities to play at a seriously competitive level.

Frankly with club land numbers declining after U14's its no mean feat that the schools have kept junior rugby's nose above the water line because without them we would have no pipeline to senior club land and beyond. The schools will not give that position up to the ARU ditherers.

Despite their competing agendas the schools have IMO filled the gaping void and should be congratulated because the ARU are not going to come up with the readies and resources to fix the problems with grassroots rugby any time soon.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Despite their competing agendas the schools have IMO filled the gaping void and should be congratulated because the ARU are not going to come up with the readies and resources to fix the problems with grassroots rugby any time soon.

If by schools you mean the Brisbane and Sydney private school then the schools haven't filled a gaping void.
The schools have filled their own agendas and by coincidence their agenda was good enough for 100 years.
The gaping void lies beyond these private schools and NRL Soccer and AFL fill that void.

 

[Quick Hands]

The problems with outsourcing your development programmes are that you have no control over how players are developed and the schools aren't rugby academies, they are schools who are engaged in multiple sports. For a long time rugby had a monopoly or near monopoly on winter sport in private schools, but this is no longer the case. We need to look no further that the AAGPS where soccer is now the main sport of choice in around half of the schools, there is a nascent AFL competition in the background.

It's not the role of schools to promote any sport over another - including rugby. Anyone who thinks that rugby has some sort of special entitlement to prime position in private school sport is delusional. The best way, and indeed the only way, to have more rugby in schools is to have more kids playing at clubs. Every time I hear someone from the ARU raving on about a schools led recovery, I feel despair.

 

[Azzuri]

Agree with all the things you suggest that schools shouldn't be... However that is not the reality we've all seen. Despite all the talk about clubs needing to be at the forefront of development the sad reality is many clubs are stuggling to get enough players to field teams after U14's. The reasons for this are complex and seemingly unresponsive to any silver bullet you'd care to mention.

I've heard a lot of blabbering over the years about what should happen however it never does. We are still in the same situation! So far the only people that seem to be doing anything about filling the important gap between u14's and U18 are the schools in all their various iterations and associations and even then school rugby participation is being eroded by the successful promotion of aerial ping pong and bloody soccer.

Yes, schools are there to educate but sport is critical part of the equation in any lad's personal development.

The schools do what they do for their own reasons (not necessarily for the benefit of the game) but they are doing something positive for the sport not just flapping their gums.

Schools aren't leading a recovery of the sport but they are helping the drowning man tread water until real help arrives.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Schools aren't leading a recovery of the sport but they are helping the drowning man tread water until real help arrives.

There is room for the view that the drowning man needs to learn to swim and by helping him tread water he's just getting taken further out to sea where help won't reach him.

 

[Azzuri]

There is room for the view that the drowning man needs to learn to swim and by helping him tread water he's just getting taken further out to sea where help won't reach him.

While there's life there's hope @IS ;-)

 

[Quick Hands]

While there's life there's hope @IS ;-)

I was going to liken the ARU's journey to save the game to the wanderings of Odysseus, but then I realised that Odysseus was (a) described as being of nimble wits and (b) only took 10 years to reach his destination.

I fear that the ARU are still on Calypso's island and showing no signs of moving from their torpor. And they are still to pass the siren song of the school led recovery and the whirlpool of nepotism.

 

[White line fever]

There is a lot of sense being spoken here, clearly it is complicated BUT other sports seem to be coping (to say the least).

I think there is also some truth about the performance, or otherwise, of the Wallabies, and that effect on the code.

If the ARU lacks the resources ie money through sponsorship etc, because poor results lead to lesser sponsorship investment, then it probably can't have any real impact at the grass roots level.

I wonder if when we were winning, like early 2000's if the sponsorship dollars the ARU attracted where substantially more than these days, and if there was a corresponding stronger investment at the grass roots level.

Someone will probably know better than me, keen to hear if someone does.

If indeed that was the case and the grass roots support still wasn't great,
then it is clear that the ARU isn't, and has never been, too worried about the grass roots.

Regardless, the reality is that if the ARU isn't/has never been, interested in the grass roots, then that would one day reflect on the Wallabies performance ,and that one day, is like NOW!

It's a business and we need business people with vision, just like all the codes currently eating our lunch!

 

[White line fever]

Re my last post, I left something out.

This ARU situation is commonly referred to as SELF FULFILLING PROPHECY!!!

 

[Azzuri]

I was going to liken the ARU's journey to save the game to the wanderings of Odysseus, but then I realised that Odysseus was (a) described as being of nimble wits and (b) only took 10 years to reach his destination.

I fear that the ARU are still on Calypso's island and showing no signs of moving from their torpor. And they are still to pass the siren song of the school led recovery and the whirlpool of nepotism.

PS: I'll not be accepting any criticism regarding the grammatical correctness of this meme

 

[Quick Hands]

I wonder if when we were winning, like early 2000's if the sponsorship dollars the ARU attracted where substantially more than these days, and if there was a corresponding stronger investment at the grass roots level.

No, there wasn't.

.

If indeed that was the case and the grass roots support still wasn't great,
then it is clear that the ARU isn't, and has never been, too worried about the grass roots.

No, that haven't been.

Regardless, the reality is that if the ARU isn't/has never been, interested in the grass roots, then that would one day reflect on the Wallabies performance ,and that one day, is like NOW!

Indeed, the day of reckoning as well and truly arrived.

 

[HFTH]

I have been reading the posts about falling rugby numbers and what the ARU should do about it. I had the pleasure of coaching an U8 club team this year. The club caters for U6 to U10, then U11 to U17. My son played in the team I coached and he also played soccer. The main deterrent for parents enrolling their sons in rugby is safety (mainly mums) and its having a big impact on numbers. The first thing the ARU should do is introduce weight grading like they have in NZ. Our junior club had a successful year (winning about ¾ of games) but some games we played were one sided and dangerous simply because kids develop at different speeds. There are also parents (and I suspect clubs turn a blind eye) who play kids down just so they can win.

I’m sure there are plenty of other things the ARU should do but ‘from the coal face’ of junior rugby I estimate that our numbers would bounce 10-15% in year 1 if weight grading was introduced and enforced.

 

[formerflanker]

I’m sure there are plenty of other things the ARU should do but ‘from the coal face’ of junior rugby I estimate that our numbers would bounce 10-15% in year 1 if weight grading was introduced and enforced.

Weight grading is certainly worth debating. I wonder if any Level 3 theses have addressed the issue? Or if a national or state body has already done research? Something concrete to get the discussion rolling.
I can see many implementation problems and rugby associations would want to know the benefits clearly identified before any changes were to be made.

 

[Lindommer]

"benefits clearly identified"? 100kg behemoths, like Willie Skelton at 15, not playing against normally-sized 50kg opponents for starters. Teams not opposing both Rodney Blake and Salesi Ma'afu in scrums when they're some 150kg lighter for seconds.

If New Zealand can make it work why can't we in Australia? It's been a grading qualification in junior rugby league for 60 years, a lot of the junior players we have in rugby are quite used to the concept.

 

[HFTH]

"benefits clearly identified"? 100kg behemoths, like Willie Skelton at 15, not playing against normally-sized 50kg opponents for starters. Teams not opposing both Rodney Blake and Salesi Ma'afu in scrums when they're some 150kg lighter for seconds.

If New Zealand can make it work why can't we in Australia? It's been a grading qualification on junior rugby league for 60 years, a lot of the junior players we have in rugby are quite used to the concept.

Yep, I agree. Former-flankers view is why rugby is underperforming. Too many 'debates' from helicopters. It's so simple. The boys get on scales when they provide ID and the registration form at the beginning of the year.

The other thing soccer do well or at least my sons club is they have a stated target of getting teams to win at least 50% of their games. It you start winning all the time your teams goes up a division and vice versa. It creates close, fair and exciting games which in turn keeps boys in the sport.

 

[Rich_E]

So the 2017 AAGPS comp will be decided with one round of 5 games. But why?

I have read that it may have been due to increased injuries. But how will replacing 5 comp games with 5 trial games reduce the level of injuries?

A 5 round comp is too short IMO.

I would understand if the 'other round' was going to be used for another COMP involving teams from different associations.

But 5 to 7 trials games, followed by 5 COMP games? Really?
.

 

[Azzuri]

So the 2017 AAGPS comp will be decided with one round of 5 games. But why?

But 5 to 7 trials games, followed by 5 COMP games? Really?
.

An unmitigated disaster in the making.... it aint broke and doesn't need any "fixing".....