NSW AAGPS Rugby 2012

[Hugh Jarse]

Hopefully Kings know about the issue, either informally from Coach to Coach, or via a formal communication.

It is hard for a School to deal with a problem if no one has told them that there is a problem.

There is no way the Kings School (or any for that matter) would condone racial vilification.

 

[Gristlechewer]

Agree. Whitely was the man of the match in my eyes. Not bad in a losing team.

They had to play catch up rugby. For those who thought they should have kicked for goal: they were too far behind. For those who thought they should have taken the lineout: they should remember how many lineouts they lost that afternoon. For those who thought they should have taken a scrum: remember how much trouble the View scrummie was in getting clean ball when his scrum was being pushed back all day.

Quick taps were the right choices.

None of the Joeys people I talked with after the game mentioned him except in terms of being impressed with the Riverview, NSW and Australian Schools captain.
.

There are more than a few that wouldn't say that too LG. In fairness there are always two sides to a story

 

[Gristlechewer]

Its hard to tell because pretty much everyone is boarding by year 12, Michael Kovicac was the first current day boy to make the 1st XV in 2010. Fairly sure Damien Fitzpatrick (2007) may have been a day boy at some stage.

I think there are a couple of boys that have chosen the live in path. Deegan, Curtain, Goldie are all within close proximity to the school.

 

[Rugby from the backrow]

There are more than a few that wouldn't say that too LG. In fairness there are always two sides to a story

Unfortunately the point was lose in translation. Originally I was making a comment on "isolation" not on Whitely

 

[Lee Grant]

Much ado about nothing?

 

[KOB1987]

Interesting about Grammar, maybe some of the other schools will withdraw students from the HSC for the same reason!!

We should not lose sight of the importance of education. All boys attending GPS schools have a wonderful opportunity. These schools provide a diversity of high quality education which is unparalleled. Surely our discussion should focus on continued improvement in all areas of academic, sporting and other cultural activities. In this forum we need to work out how to improve the overall quality of GPS rugby. Sydney club rugby, NSW rugby and Australian rugby are in desparate need of an improved broad platform from these schools. The current danger is this platform may be sinking. [/quote]

I agree, but school 'education' is not only about academic excellence, it is about preparing kids for the real world.....there has to be a balance, too much emphasis either way is not good. When I went through, both Grammar and High would normally languish at the bottom half of the ladder, but were capable enough to compete with the other tail enders and even cause the odd upset......really, this is all they need to be able to do, going out and getting thumped every week does nothing for the confidence of these kids. Perhaps the sports focus of these schools needs only to be to retain some of the talent once it is identified so that they can compete, not necessarily hunt it down to win the title.

For the record, I went to Grammar then Kings, so I experienced both cultures.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

We should not lose sight of the importance of education. All boys attending GPS schools have a wonderful opportunity. These schools provide a diversity of high quality education which is unparalleled. Surely our discussion should focus on continued improvement in all areas of academic, sporting and other cultural activities. In this forum we need to work out how to improve the overall quality of GPS rugby. Sydney club rugby, NSW rugby and Australian rugby are in desparate need of an improved broad platform from these schools. The current danger is this platform may be sinking.

The time has passed when the Wallabies, and maybe even the Tahs, can rely on the production of enough players for their needs from 8 private schools in Sydney.
If this remains the preferred development path we will always struggle at international level.
And KOB1987 you must have been at Grammar during the a period when they did not win a game for 15 years.....still they're probably getting up to that level now.
Part of the problem at Grammar is that there are few good coaches: half of them are teachers who are old boys of the school but who never played anywhere after school. Its a self perpetuating disaster. They bring Fear in to coach the firsts - like him or loathe him - he should be coaching the thirteens and giving them some skills.
In the 14As they have players who are unable to pass with 2 hands - simply unable!
They have kids who cannot pass both ways.
These are pretty basic skills to be short of and having a big brain is not a contraindication of being able to pass so its not just because they are supposedly smart: its because no one gives a shit.

 

[KOB1987]

The time has passed when the Wallabies, and maybe even the Tahs, can rely on the production of enough players for their needs from 8 private schools in Sydney.
If this remains the preferred development path we will always struggle at international level.
And KOB1987 you must have been at Grammar during the a period when they did not win a game for 15 years...still they're probably getting up to that level now.
Part of the problem at Grammar is that there are few good coaches: half of them are teachers who are old boys of the school but who never played anywhere after school. Its a self perpetuating disaster. They bring Fear in to coach the firsts - like him or loathe him - he should be coaching the thirteens and giving them some skills.
In the 14As they have players who are unable to pass with 2 hands - simply unable!
They have kids who cannot pass both ways.
These are pretty basic skills to be short of and having a big brain is not a contraindication of being able to pass so its not just because they are supposedly smart: its because no one gives a shit.

You are no doubt right with that insight IS.....and unless the school is prepared to invest in sport to some extent, and then promote this, then it's not going to correct itself. Say you are a parent relatively interested in sport, living in the Eastern Suburbs, and you have a 12yo boy that's both intelligent and reasonably talented at sport....assuming you have no prior connection to either, are you going to choose Grammar or Scots??

 

[Sydneybra]

You are no doubt right with that insight IS...and unless the school is prepared to invest in sport to some extent, and then promote this, then it's not going to correct itself. Say you are a parent relatively interested in sport, living in the Eastern Suburbs, and you have a 12yo boy that's both intelligent and reasonably talented at sport..assuming you have no prior connection to either, are you going to choose Grammar or Scots??

If you have the money Scots any day of the week

 

[Brian Westlake]

The time has passed when the Wallabies, and maybe even the Tahs, can rely on the production of enough players for their needs from 8 private schools in Sydney.
If this remains the preferred development path we will always struggle at international level.
And KOB1987 you must have been at Grammar during the a period when they did not win a game for 15 years...still they're probably getting up to that level now.
Part of the problem at Grammar is that there are few good coaches: half of them are teachers who are old boys of the school but who never played anywhere after school. Its a self perpetuating disaster. They bring Fear in to coach the firsts - like him or loathe him - he should be coaching the thirteens and giving them some skills.
In the 14As they have players who are unable to pass with 2 hands - simply unable!
They have kids who cannot pass both ways.
These are pretty basic skills to be short of and having a big brain is not a contraindication of being able to pass so its not just because they are supposedly smart: its because no one gives a shit.

IS, I was witness to quite a lot of both NSW schools league and Union this year, and the problem you state is not only at Grammar. In the NSW league held in Toronto earlier this year, a strapping young athlete charged through and only had unmarked support to his right. he looked at the left support that was heavily marked, and then made a decision to kick rather than try and pass to his "off" side. I as well have noticed the same thing as you and am slowly realising that, as a nation, we aren't coaching footy players through the juniors. What we are coaching are a pack of "Collision Sport Athletes". ( I am sorry about this but I did hear a parent say this at an SJC game and liked it). I too fear for our future campaigns because it doesn't auger well, just look at the recent U 20's as they are our next breed. Suggestions are gratefully accepted.

 

[Brian Westlake]

If you have the money Scots any day of the week

Why?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

You are no doubt right with that insight IS...and unless the school is prepared to invest in sport to some extent, and then promote this, then it's not going to correct itself. Say you are a parent relatively interested in sport, living in the Eastern Suburbs, and you have a 12yo boy that's both intelligent and reasonably talented at sport..assuming you have no prior connection to either, are you going to choose Grammar or Scots??

Thats me and its a no brainer: Grammar.
They are at school to learn - they learn the beauty of rugby outside the school but have to see an ugly side within the school!
My whinge is that it wouldnt take much to make them competitive - just a little input from experienced coaches with some background other than the indifferent coaching to which they were exposed when they were at the school. A simple game plan well executed will usually make you competitive: they dont lack ticker for the most part.
But having a former professional coach coach them in the 1sts is just too little too late.
What shits me is that they wont tolerate indifference or incompetence in anything but sport.
The other thing which is not to be underestimated is that there is a widespread perception among the sort of people who consider a school like grammar that rugby in particular is anti intellectual or that playing it in some way lowers you IQ.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Thats me and its a no brainer: Grammar.
They are at school to learn - they learn the beauty of rugby outside the school but have to see an ugly side within the school!
My whinge is that it wouldnt take much to make them competitive - just a little input from experienced coaches with some background other than the indifferent coaching to which they were exposed when they were at the school. A simple game plan well executed will usually make you competitive: they dont lack ticker for the most part.
But having a former professional coach coach them in the 1sts is just too little too late.
What shits me is that they wont tolerate indifference or incompetence in anything but sport.
The other thing which is not to be underestimated is that there is a widespread perception among the sort of people who consider a school like grammar that rugby in particular is anti intellectual or that playing it in some way lowers you IQ.

Last paragraph IS, I am not sure how to read this? Sorry...

 

[Inside Shoulder]

IS, I was witness to quite a lot of both NSW schools league and Union this year, and the problem you state is not only at Grammar. In the NSW league held in Toronto earlier this year, a strapping young athlete charged through and only had unmarked support to his right. he looked at the left support that was heavily marked, and then made a decision to kick rather than try and pass to his "off" side. I as well have noticed the same thing as you and am slowly realising that, as a nation, we aren't coaching footy players through the juniors. What we are coaching are a pack of "Collision Sport Athletes". ( I am sorry about this but I did hear a parent say this at an SJC game and liked it). I too fear for our future campaigns because it doesn't auger well, just look at the recent U 20's as they are our next breed. Suggestions are gratefully accepted.

SJC being an exception in my experience.
The solution in my view is to remove the accident that is the school your parents can afford to send you as the factor that determines what level of rugby you get to play.
If all the good kids played against all the good kids or even if everyone got a full season of competitive rugby - i.e. 15-20 games - these problems would present much earlier in a young career and be addressed: they would be exposed by playing against good opponents. We would produce better players and more of them.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Last paragraph IS, I am not sure how to read this? Sorry.

Mothers, in particular, think that only boofheads play rugby.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Mothers, in particular, think that only boofheads play rugby.

Oh , OK. My mum and Newbie call me a boofhead too. I can see this now I have reread the post. My beautiful wife can't accept that her two treasures bash themselves at Rugby each weekend either.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Thank you

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Oh , OK. My mum and Newbie call me a boofhead too. I can see this now I have reread the post. My beautiful wife can't accept that her two treasures bash themselves at Rugby each weekend either.

My wife loves it-but she's the one that insists on grammar. I'd really have to make a decision if she wasnt the boss in that department.

 

[KOB1987]

Thats me and its a no brainer: Grammar.
They are at school to learn - they learn the beauty of rugby outside the school but have to see an ugly side within the school!

Are you saying that they play club rugby instead of, or alongside, playing for Grammar?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

alongside - they have to play for the school: another anomaly - "we dont care if we're no good but you have to play for us irrespective of your ability or rugby ambitions"!