NSW JRU State Championships & Representative Teams 2014

[Slugga]

‘Just look in your own backyard.’

No problem. Two teams in the Eastwood district, same as last year (that they list six possible teams is irrelevant, they don’t exist so stop pointing to unicorns) - 13 from Beecroft and 10 from Dural. No mergers, no other teams folding, no chance of them folding post reps (will it be the same for Chatswood? If not, does that bother you? It should).

I’ll just make something clear however, I’ve seen empire builders within Eastwood clubs as well and I’ve been just as critical of them.

‘Boys want to play at their own level!!! Not come across several A graders that belt the hell out of you .’

Garbage, there are a number of ‘A graders’, zone and Sydney reps in the Beecroft and Dural sides, haven’t seen any complaints yet.

‘Selections for 15s last year were weird. Move on . Its 12 months later. Im sure SJRU know they stuffed up bigger than normal so let them solve their issues which they have plenty of.’

Glad you acknowledge there was at least an anomaly and that there are issues the SJRU need to address, that’s all I’ve been saying. The fact is it’s you guys that are struggling to let it go and the handwringing hysteria over my heresy, particularly from IS only reinforces my suspicions or as good ol’ Bill Shakespeare would say ‘He doth protest too much’.

 

[Slugga]

The poor old coaches (and selectors too, I guess) are going to be pilloried whichever way they tiurn, one suspects.

Not so sure about that Jaghound. As I said if there is clarity in the selection process then there is less chance of the perception of bias.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

‘Just look in your own backyard.’

No problem. Two teams in the Eastwood district, same as last year (that they list six possible teams is irrelevant, they don’t exist so stop pointing to unicorns) - 13 from Beecroft and 10 from Dural. No mergers, no other teams folding, no chance of them folding post reps (will it be the same for Chatswood? If not, does that bother you? It should).

I’ll just make something clear however, I’ve seen empire builders within Eastwood clubs as well and I’ve been just as critical of them.

‘Boys want to play at their own level!!! Not come across several A graders that belt the hell out of you .’

Garbage, there are a number of ‘A graders’, zone and Sydney reps in the Beecroft and Dural sides, haven’t seen any complaints yet.

‘Selections for 15s last year were weird. Move on . Its 12 months later. Im sure SJRU know they stuffed up bigger than normal so let them solve their issues which they have plenty of.’

Glad you acknowledge there was at least an anomaly and that there are issues the SJRU need to address, that’s all I’ve been saying. The fact is it’s you guys that are struggling to let it go and the handwringing hysteria over my heresy, particularly from IS only reinforces my suspicions or as good ol’ Bill Shakespeare would say ‘He doth protest too much’.

No heresy just hypocrisy.
Have a dig and find out who was responsible for appointing coaches and selectors in u15: one of your own!

 

[Slugga]

No heresy just hypocrisy.
Have a dig and find out who was responsible for appointing coaches and selectors in u15: one of your own!

How many stood for the job? Not that this red herring has any relevance.

The fact is based on performance and results there was no chance in hell an independent selection panel would have selected 9 players, 40% of the squad, from that one team, none at all, zip.

Sorry my opinion upsets you so much (to quote 10 to 12 - get over it) but once again you ignore the greater argument here which is that cliques and self interest of a number of people, across multiple clubs(including the one my kids play with) in a number of instances is restricting opportunity, retarding the development of players in general and driving kids out of the game in a time it can least afford it.

 

[Druid]

How many stood for the job? Not that this red herring has any relevance.

The fact is based on performance and results there was no chance in hell an independent selection panel would have selected 9 players, 40% of the squad, from that one team, none at all, zip.

Sorry my opinion upsets you so much (to quote 10 to 12 - get over it) but once again you ignore the greater argument here which is that cliques and self interest of a number of people, across multiple clubs(including the one my kids play with) in a number of instances is restricting opportunity, retarding the development of players in general and driving kids out of the game in a time it can least afford it.

And this discussion is why the following needs to happen around the State Champioships:

1. Don't start rep Rugby until Under 14s. Kids at younger age groups need to just be playing Rugby and not be pawns in the parents power plays to win some trophies and create elite 11 yr olds. There is well and truly enough scope in the current weekend competitions to play in good quality games of a high standard. If we want to run squads & tournaments make them development only.
2. Abolish the districts and create fewer regions within Sydney which better reflect the current playing numbers and can spread the talent more evenly (these can be adjusted over time). Having 1 district with 20 teams in an age group and another district with 1 team does not achieve anything other than directing the better players to the bigger districts.
3. With a reduction of districts/regions and age groups, if possible, select independant Coaches & Selectors. If there are only 4-5 regions this is a much more attainable goal then trying to select independant Coaches and Selectors for the current 12 districts.

I would imagine though that the history and emotions around the districts would prevent this from occuring.

 

[Gary Owen III]

The fact is based on performance and results there was no chance in hell an independent selection panel would have selected 9 players, 40% of the squad, from that one team, none at all, zip.

I think the issue was more the process last year than anything else that achieved this result.

The Sydney coaches were also tasked with selecting the Barbarians team (as there was no Barbarians coach and the Norths coach was asked to do role, so they had the Sydney coaches select the Barbarian team).

The fact that this same group then chose the Sydney team has created this issue. I don't claim there was any bias on their behalf, but human nature suggests that if these guys selected a kid once, then they are most likely to select them again.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Slugga,
<snip> NSW Age Championships ( to give it it's correct title, I believe) <snip>

All the documentation from NSW Juniors RU refers to them as "Junior State Championships (JSC)"
http://www.nswjuniors.rugbynet.com.au/verve/_resources/2014_JSC_Competition_Rules_.pdf

1. INTRODUCTION
i The NSWJRU State Championships form part of the representative pathway for Junior Club players across NSW. The underlying principle for participation in these Championships requires
participants to be genuine Junior Club players participating in club competitions from the metropolitan and country areas of NSW.
ii Matches in the 2014 Junior State Championships (JSC) shall be played in accordance with the ARU Pathway/U/19 Law Variations and NSWJRU State Championship Competition Rules.

 

[Slugga]

Agree with much of what you said here Druid, particularly spreading the talent more evenly.

IMO club football should be about enjoyment of the game and developing skills of all the kids. it comes as a terrible shock to many when they leave juniors and discover they’re not quite as talented as they’ve been led to believe.

Indeed Eastwood state that part of the purpose of reps is to go back to your village club and share what you’ve learnt, a little difficult if your village and rep side are one and the same.

I have also witnessed kids pigeon holed into the haves and have nots from the age of ten which creates arrogance for one group, disillusionment for the other and a watering down of performance across the board.

Look at the NZ system, its no coincidence they consistently produce the best side in the world.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think the issue was more the process last year than anything else that achieved this result.

The Sydney coaches were also tasked with selecting the Barbarians team (as there was no Barbarians coach and the Norths coach was asked to do role, so they had the Sydney coaches select the Barbarian team).

The fact that this same group then chose the Sydney team has created this issue. I don't claim there was any bias on their behalf, but human nature suggests that if these guys selected a kid once, then they are most likely to select them again.

and presumably some of them were picked into the babas side on the basis that the Sydney selectors thought they were the better p[layers.
Of course you've left out the fact that the North zone side was picked on the Sunday afternoon: i.e. prior to the semis.
That should get Slugga going some more - not that he needs too much of a wind up.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Look at the NZ system, its no coincidence they consistently produce the best side in the world.

To what part of it do you attribute their success?
There are plenty of disgruntled kiwis in and around auckland as prior posters have identified in other threads.

 

[10to12]

Spreading the talent more evenly sounds great but if you look at the results at SC over the years no one district is winning it regularly. The stronger districts each have a turn at being up the top depending on the original cohorts who started in their early years. More importantly the districts have to look after the clubs in their district. True A and B players want to play a much more physical game than than the C and D players who love Rugby but only want to butt heads with like minded/physical boys. When the "hotshots" leave a team to play at a higher level and his original team folds we allaccept it rather than helping out the team that folds. Rather than being totally obsessed with A grade why aren't we shoring up C and D grade, joining teams when needed making sure they have v good coaches, managers enthusiastic club support.. If you follow subbies you can see the importance of management in keeping a team together.
A few years ago I came across akid I coached in the 7-9 playing in the 16 SC. This kid was the greatest gardener/stargazer I have ever coached and I thought would move to ballet by the time he got to high school. We chatted about his rugby pathway which consisted of C -D grade through the years and at 15 he grew and toughened up found a new love of rugby and was so excited about playing with his heroes. He was lucky he played for a small club which only has C grade teams so they worked hard at keeping it all together.
We are loosing these kids by the thousands and need to keep them in the game.Its about rugby not 16yo superteams/stars.



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[Inside Shoulder]

Some kids want to play at the highest possible level with and against the best they can find.
That is no less noble than playing the game in C's.
Both need to be catered for.
Keeping everyone happy is impossible.

 

[10to12]

IS .Totally agree. I don't think we are loosing these kids. My point is clubs and districts should be more about the rugby experience and keeping kids in the game at the level they want. The rep program deals with the kids you're talking about. Also watching the kids in the reps becoming mates after years of tribal club rugby is a joy to watch

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[Druid]

No issues with kids wanting to play at the highest level, I think even having district teams make up the "A" grade weekend competition from a certain age group should be considered to have these kids play the high level of Rugby weekly (and would take away alot of the club swapping and the angst that surrounds that).

My point above is more at a district level, everyone accepts there has been a decline in numbers in the Sydney region. This decline in numbers has not been uniform, however, the district make-up and number of districts has remained unaltered.

So, what you have now is some districts, when it comes to reps, with district A having 20 kids or less in age groups to choose from (if they enter a team at all), whereby district A, B & C has 100+ (more so in the younger age groups than the older). This discrepency will never lead to competitive games at the SC between District A and other districts.

So the questions I raise are:

1. Is the current number of districts the correct amount of districts in the Juniors for the playing numbers we now have?

2. Is Rugby generally happy to have these smaller districts slide into oblivion?

I think that we have too many districts given the number of players we currently have and that the districts are massively disproportonate which is to the determinate to growing Rugby in those weaker districts.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Druid, this should lead to some howls: the biggest issue is is that Gordon have 7(?) junior clubs. Easts have 1 or maybe 2. Norths have 2.
The imbalance is plain to see.
Presumably, gordon picked up a number of clubs when Hornsby went down its path to oblivion.

 

[Quick Hands]

Presumably, gordon picked up a number of clubs when Hornsby went down its path to oblivion.

They certainly did. St. Ives, Wahroonga and Hornsby were Hornsby clubs in the 70s. (as were Normanhurst and Asquith)

 

[Inside Shoulder]

They certainly did. St. Ives, Wahroonga and Hornsby were Hornsby clubs in the 70s. (as were Normanhurst and Asquith)

What a squandered opportunity Hornsby was/is - should have been a growth club: good private schools to prop them up, Normanhurst boys high (who played a bit RU I thin), Ku-rin-gai High (with some Oz schoolboys - I think), connection to Knox IIRC through a teacher and some players who went there.
Mind you Knox had a pretty solid connection to Gordon too.

 

[Druid]

Druid, this should lead to some howls: the biggest issue is is that Gordon have 7(?) junior clubs. Easts have 1 or maybe 2. Norths have 2.
The imbalance is plain to see.
Presumably, gordon picked up a number of clubs when Hornsby went down its path to oblivion.

No doubt it will, particularly by those that are benefitting most by the current setup. It would be a brave person to undertake this process and I am sure the emotional outbursts and dramatics would be strong and frequent. However, the alternative is to accept the slow death of some districts in areas the ARU/NSWJRU etc propoganda would have us believe is vitally important.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

No doubt it will, particularly by those that are benefitting most by the current setup. It would be a brave person to undertake this process and I am sure the emotional outbursts and dramatics would be strong and frequent. However, the alternative is to accept the slow death of some districts in areas the ARU/NSWJRU etc propoganda would have us believe is vitally important.

Well ,there were few howls when Hunters Hill went to Norths, there's an argument they should have gone to Eastwood I guess (that should entice Slugga back into the fray).
With those easts numbers thats only to age 12 or so: in U14s they have only one junior side and I think all play under the Wallaroos banner after 12.
the Wicks have a number of junior clubs that peter out very quickly from high school age.

 

[Quick Hands]

What a squandered opportunity Hornsby was/is - should have been a growth club: good private schools to prop them up, Normanhurst boys high (who played a bit RU I thin), Ku-rin-gai High (with some Oz schoolboys - I think), connection to Knox IIRC through a teacher and some players who went there.
Mind you Knox had a pretty solid connection to Gordon too.

Normanhurst played their home games at Normanhurst High School - so I always assumed that they were either a school team or very closely related to the school.