• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Phil Waugh is finished

Status
Not open for further replies.

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
It was obvious against the Canes and even blind freddy could see in the Chiefs match that Phil Waugh is finished. Admire his spirit, what's he's done for us but the way he's played looks to have take its toll. Its time to move on. I'm worried the Tahs won't have the guts to drop him.

Suggest we start Beau Robinson ASAP and sign up Jono Jenkins from Sydney Uni.
 

the gambler

Dave Cowper (27)
I went to the pub instead of watching the warm up game but i heard the third stringers beat the schoolboys in a pretty heated match. Did anyone see the game?
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
In what way naz? I'm about to watch my copy of it and need to know what to look out for...
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
Noddy said:
I saw him once run AWAY from a tackle. Most unlike the Waugh of old.

You saw him break out into a run ? :eek:

Argh, I don't mean to be mean. He's been a fantastic servant for the Tahs and his body is clearly now paying the price.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Interesting. Its clear while watching that he's not as prominent as he once was in the tight-loose - probably something to do with the ELVs increasing the speed of the game. But then, the Waratahs pack are bloody everywhere (if a little reluctant at times) so its occasionally hard to pick him out. Still, he was in support when the ball got turned over and he's the guy who nabbed Masaga before the bloke took off to score, so its not all bad.

Fuck Mowen is a lightweight though. Like a poor man's Stephen Hoiles. Check that: a destitute man's Hoiles - he makes Hoiles look good!

Mumm is the fucking man though - Chiefs fullback knocks it on, regathers, and waits for the whistle. Mumm charges him and starts fighting for the ball because the whistle hasn't sounded yet. Caldwell is a real fluffybunny too - I like his style. Its a shame we don't have more depth in the tight five because the starters are going to get worn out halfway through the season if the backs keep screwing us. It should be said that Palu had offload opportunities he didn't take too.
 
R

rugbywhisperer

Guest
naza said:
It was obvious against the Canes and even blind freddy could see in the Chiefs match that Phil Waugh is finished. Admire his spirit, what's he's done for us but the way he's played looks to have take its toll. Its time to move on. I'm worried the Tahs won't have the guts to drop him.

Suggest we start Beau Robinson ASAP and sign up Jono Jenkins from Sydney Uni.

I also feel the same about George Smith but 2 years hence. I feel it better for Aus rugby to get Waugh's and Smith's replacements well and truly bedded in before 2011 RWC as neither will be competitive then.
 
S

steiner

Guest
Geez, it was only last year we would have said "Phil Waugh finished", therefore the Waratahs are finished!
I would have thought Waugh was still integral to the Tah's success. But I did watch the match in a pub so didn't pick up on every thing!

Nonetheless can't help but feel his obituary is being written a bit early here. He has dropped in pace, no question of that, so he doesn't cause the turnovers he used to, but still great in defense I would have thought, and great in perception in defence, but even that is being questioned? Hmmm.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Naz has been questioning Waugh's place ever since that night he had in Canberra with George Smith and Beau Robinson. Naz is a sucker for two things: dreadlocks and rangas. :)
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
Geez naza you take these extreme views on things. Everything is black and white for you, but life isn't like that and nor is rugby or the ability of the people playing it.

I find that those people who think this player or that is extraordinarily good or extraordinarily bad are way off the mark most of the time unless they are great players or very poor ones. If they are very poor players they don't get to play many games and folks who criticise Oz players year after year as being poor have to ask why they are constantly picked by different people for the Super 14 and for Wallaby teams.

Perhaps their opinions are not justified.

Sure Waugh is not the player he was but I would have hated the Tahs to play that crap game on Friday night without him. I watched him closely during the evening, not least because I was sitting next to his dad who is a friend of mine, and incidentally next to him was Matt Burke's dad, and we all thought that Phil went OK. Hardly an unbiased group you might say but his dad is a harsh critic.


naza said:
It was obvious against the Canes and even blind freddy could see in the Chiefs match that Phil Waugh is finished.

Obvious to you otherwise you wouldn't have bothered to type out the words, but not to others. For example: you thought he had a poor match against the Canes but in the NZ Rugby Weekly News magazine they give match reports and give out points to 3 players on a 3-2-1 basis. Waugh got the 2 points.

Don't give a knee jerk reply that I think we have to take the opinions of Kiwi journalists as gospel; we don't, but I just mention it to point out that there are opinions about Waugh that are different from your own that are just as valid.

People may want to post that Waugh is behind Smith and Pocock in the pecking order now and that Waugh may not get topped up by the ARU when his contract expires, because of the funding crisis, but I already know that.

In anticipation of that Beau Robinson should get more and more time during the year as part of succession planning for the time when Waugh is gone and Robinson and Coridas take over. I would even have Beau start in a few games.

But I've said this before.

Yep, before you mention it you are entitled to your opinion, shabby though it is.


NTA

Agreed on Mumm and Caldwell. Mumm doesn't surprise me but the big improver this year including during the 2 trials that I saw, has been Caldwell. It is well that the S14 season is so short, else we would be in trouble even if they can trot out on the park for every game. The toll has to tell. Mind you Caldwell played every minute of every game in 2007; so I guess it's possible.

I watched lock Thompson when he came on the other night and also against the Canes when he replaced Waugh when he got his head stitched, and players moved around. He is the 3rd ranked lock and not filling me with confidence.

I watched Doherty closely in the curtain raiser and he looked a class above guys like Dave Dennis. As soon as he is up to speed we should whack him onto the bench as the lock reserve.

Agree about Mowen - he plays a light game, but he's quite good in the lineout. Maybe Doherty can shift into 6 sooner rather than later. He has a bit more grunt.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
OK, I've watched this game and wonder what your statement is based on naz - Waugh had a pretty good game and was the first in support on a lot of occasions. He's not as fast as he used to be (few of us are) but why are you singling him out when the only problem up front where people isolating themselves (Mowen) or running too wide to allow Chiefs backs to get there first. You can't expect the bloke to get to the outside centre channel before someone like Masaga when the Fijian has a headstart on him.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Actually there were two black marks against Waugh - he kicked the ball twice. One was actually OK for a touch finder but the other went straight to the oppo fullback, who claimed the mark.

And then didn't tap the ball - a mark is a free kick I though but he just passed it. Missed that one Stu Dickinson!
 

Moses

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
You're talking about the same bloke who was picked in the Planet rugby XV as the best 6(7) in tehe comp for week 1 as selected by Saffas!

I'm a bit concerned about his head wound though, it obviously hadn't healed after week 1... maybe he should wear a scrum cap till it's better..
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
Exactly right on the non-tap NTA. Old hawkeye Lee spotted that too.

That was the move that Delaney, after the non-tap passed to Sivi who chipped the ball and regathered, then from the ruck Donald kicked the ball out and Turner had to kick the ball out 10M from the Tahs line. There were about 5 minutes to go.

Then the reserve hooker baulked the throw.

Talk about karma.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
And another thing: despite having Mowen as his backup, Waugh and his pack held off two pretty talented flankers in Latimer and Messam. So I don't think the old dog is done with just yet.
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
NTA said:
Fuck Mowen is a lightweight though. Like a poor man's Stephen Hoiles. Check that: a destitute man's Hoiles - he makes Hoiles look good!

Mumm is the fucking man though - Chiefs fullback knocks it on, regathers, and waits for the whistle. Mumm charges him and starts fighting for the ball because the whistle hasn't sounded yet. Caldwell is a real fluffybunny too - I like his style. Its a shame we don't have more depth in the tight five because the starters are going to get worn out halfway through the season if the backs keep screwing us. It should be said that Palu had offload opportunities he didn't take too.

I've said it before - Mowen's bodyshape is all wrong for rugby. Lithe build, high centre of gravity. Doesn't offer much in the contact zones, which is what you want from your 6.

Couldn't be happier with Mumm. He took a bit longer than expected to develop but now seems to get better every game.

Palu had a mixed game but showed how badly we need his dynamic presence in the pack. On the comeback from injury, so he'll pick up his form, fitness and rythym.

Robinson & Baxter were brutal in the scrum. They tasted blood and wanted more.

As for Waugh, looks like it'll take more time for you all to come around. The poor lad is on his last legs.
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
Lee Grant said:
Sure Waugh is not the player he was but I would have hated the Tahs to play that crap game on Friday night without him. I watched him closely during the evening, not least because I was sitting next to his dad who is a friend of mine, and incidentally next to him was Matt Burke's dad, and we all thought that Phil went OK. Hardly an unbiased group you might say but his dad is a harsh critic.

And that's what can make it tough for people - emotion is involved. You've been following his career an awfully long time.

I'm brutally honest. Nothing against Waugh but we have a real chance to win the S14 and I'd hate for a misguided loyalty to him to hold the Tahs back.
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
Not sure on Waugh he like many other Aussies(George Smith included) were good one week terrible the next I know that after 2 rounds I think Pocock is leading the way at openside.

Mowen should be benched for Doherty this week, Doherty is a very good player & had some really good games for the Force at Blindside.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
naza said:
Palu had a mixed game but showed how badly we need his dynamic presence in the pack. On the comeback from injury, so he'll pick up his form, fitness and rythym.

Just wish he'd take his blinkers off! Part of his deception should be running the ball up most of the time, but offloading to the guys in space the rest. I don't think he's fully explored the link-man side of the #8 role
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top