QLD GPS Rugby 2017

[Realist]

Very sad and heartbreaking for those boys, I am surprised it is happening at TGS, to this extent. BBC maybe. This is life however, and if not rugby then the workplace.

Yes is certainly a life lesson. But these are 16 17 year old "boys" with their best years in front of them, they should a least be afforded some respect for the effort they have put in, as well as the parents who are footing the bill to have their son there and now find themselves subsidizing the education of an import.

 

[Realist]

I do get where you are coming from Realist.



You bring up valid points.



In terms of GPS Rugby throughout the age groups - yeah , the focus / developmental offering outside of the first 25 boys of the age group as you point out is non existent.



What I am hearing from you is a wish for being fair dinkum in what is said and then done . Consistency .



Unfortunately , at all schools , too many platitudes get thrown around in either aiming for things to be a certain way ( but aren't ) or from a platform of bullshit because it sounds cool and what the masses want to hear.



In TGS's case is this not Year 2 of your new Director of Rugby at the reigns ( the ex Churchie guy ? )



I ask the question as key staffing recruits will have their own ideas that may not always align with the same line that is trotted out to the faithfull

The Churchie guy you refer to is actually Director of Sport and Activities.
The Director of Rugby is a South African, Who is going into his 6 or 7th year I think but been there a while.

 

[The sage]

More dribble. I agree that coaching is one of the aspects. I think coaching is making the game of rugby too mechanical. Rugby's, particularly schoolboy rugby, not totally about being mechanical or having the best players, it's about good skills and having fun to a degree. It's also about the will to win and playing (not being too dramatical) playing for each other.

Why hasn't tss and BBC won a premiership in the last four year? I tell u why..... Too many individually good players but no oomph no spirit no history.

So as long as u (Garry) and others want to talk it up and talk about champion players (as I'm sure a lot of them are), and talk about how "old style rugby" is not worth anything or that history means nothing, give me a Nudgee or a Churchie or a state high any time, bsc they have the history, the guts and the will to win more so then the other schools.

That's why they win more often than other schools, that why they are ur envy that's why they are ur nemesis.




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[The sage]

And just in addition to that; give me the players of the mid '70's to mid 90's any day. They won world cups they won bledesloe cups they won super 10,12 and 14's. They were the envy of the world, they were the leaders of rugby.

So all u (Garry and others) who talk so much dribble on this and other forums, should take time and maybe read a history book once in a while; guess what u may learn something. That history is important. The brand of rugby played then is still alive today and still successful; it's called the all blacks.

Just back in those days we were just equal or better than they were at that time, we believed in ourselves without the bs, and the men were willing to get the job done for themselves, each other and ultimately their families and country. Get ur collective minds out of this inferiority/superiority complex and look to the horizon not at ur feet


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[Realist]

Give me a Champion Team over a Team of Champions anytime

 

[Garry Owens]

TV on the blink at your place Sage ?

 

[Prince Henry]

It all went wrong in 2002 - Sailor, Rogers and Tuquiri. $700,000 contracts 15 years ago. Shifted the traditional rugby player's focus to the mighty green.

Look at where we are today. Half the best talent and experience playing in Europe and Japan. Force and Rebels propped up by second rate talent. Too many super rugby clubs spread too thinly across the nation. Reds now a retirement village for well travelled ex-legends....

Where was the ARU vision when we were top of the tree in 2001?
What is GPS rugby in NSW and QLD being driven by now?
What hasn't Joeys in Sydney won a comp for over 10 years?
Tradition has gone. Business is in. Balance needs to be restored.

My TV is not on the blink

 

[Garry Owens]

So Sage's shit on the liver drivel ( yes drivel , not dribble ) aside ........here is a summary of the basic thrust of the last couple of pages :

1. GPS Rugby is a fantastic schoolboy competition to be enjoyed and appreciated. It has become a bigger , faster more powerful spectacle than what it was 20 odd+ years ago

2. For the traditionalists , perhaps the essence of skill , humility and spirit is being / has been lost as Programs tend to rely on raw talent in recruitment rather than coaching / teaching .


So the follow up question , if you believe the traditionalists assertion as to the lack of true Coaching / Teaching / Mentoring impact is :

Why has this factor fallen away so much compared to generations past ?

 

[Garry Owens]

Thank you your Highness

It's exactly my point from the prior page when the ARU turned to the dark side under "Darth John" O'Neill on his watch from 95 to 03.

That was the fork in the road for mine.

 

[Garry Owens]

In terms of your Joeys Your Highness I am at a loss .

They certainly have the history and the spirit ......the OOMPH ! that is required to win under Sage's formula

Nudgee have managed to validate this over the last 4 years without having to sully itself in any of the other unsavoury elements of Schoolboy Rugby.

Maybe you should PM him to get the good oil on how its done.

 

[Blue & white]

More dribble. I agree that coaching is one of the aspects. I think coaching is making the game of rugby too mechanical. Rugby's, particularly schoolboy rugby, not totally about being mechanical or having the best players, it's about good skills and having fun to a degree. It's also about the will to win and playing (not being too dramatical) playing for each other.

Why hasn't tss and BBC won a premiership in the last four year? I tell u why... Too many individually good players but no oomph no spirit no history.

So as long as u (Garry) and others want to talk it up and talk about champion players (as I'm sure a lot of them are), and talk about how "old style rugby" is not worth anything or that history means nothing, give me a Nudgee or a Churchie or a state high any time, bsc they have the history, the guts and the will to win more so then the other schools.

That's why they win more often than other schools, that why they are ur envy that's why they are ur nemesis.




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Mr Sage
1) It seems BBC agrees with you-my nephew tells me there is not a single new boy in 1st xv squad;not any new rugby players in grade 11 . seems ( the new edict) is they will concentrate on Grades 8 and 9.I note their red hot 15A s of last year will have plenty of boys in firsts;
2) not so TSS - who have PLENTY of new boys in grade 11;
3)Churchie and culture ???They came Last in 2016 . Probably because in 2014 they had the greatest influx of new grade 11 boys in GPS history( poor old Downlands and iona were raped) one joined in round 3 - but was said to be full fee paying - even though has dad drove a forklift at Keebra Park. The also had the first full- time 1stxv rugby coach in GPS history.

 

[Jets]

I think you'll find the best teams have a good balance of quality players, good coaching and great team culture. I watched BSHS and Terrace this year and that's what I witnessed.

In regards to the statement that GPS rugby is better than it was in the 90's I'd say the following.
Are all the players today bigger and stronger than in the 90's? Yes
Are they better rugby players? I don't think so.
Is the quality of the games better? Again, I don't think so.
I could name a number of players in the 90's who would be standouts at 1stXV level these days, much like they were back then.
The game evolves with focuses on different areas but it is still the same and that's the way I want it to stay.


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[Galloper]

I think you'll find the best teams have a good balance of quality players, good coaching and great team culture. I watched BSHS and Terrace this year and that's what I witnessed.

In regards to the statement that GPS rugby is better than it was in the 90's I'd say the following.
Are all the players today bigger and stronger than in the 90's? Yes
Are they better rugby players? I don't think so.
Is the quality of the games better? Again, I don't think so.
I could name a number of players in the 90's who would be standouts at 1stXV level these days, much like they were back then.
The game evolves with focuses on different areas but it is still the same and that's the way I want it to stay.


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Well said Jets, pretty much agree with that analysis.

I think there's a place for scholarships within the GPS rugby system, and we all know that the Genie is never going back in the bottle, but my view is that there needs to be some sense of proportion to achieve lasting success at First XV level without undermining culture and morale.

If the report above about BBC concentrating on Years 8/9 for recruitment is right I reckon they will reap the rewards in a few years.

And applying your other comments to what I have seen myself at school level over the last 45 years, anyone who thinks that the champion schoolboy players of the 70's-90's wouldn't be champions in the modern era is kidding himself. The only difference is that playing today these guys would be bigger and stronger.

I certainly don't feel that the real top end talent is any better now than it was 20,30 or 40 years ago, although there's no doubt that the quality and depth of the support cast is much better.

 

[Realist]

All great points above. The game today seems to be more about Power and Structure. Coaches seem to now want to put more of their mark on a team. Hence why they they look for big athletes that don't think to much. They don't want a kid out there that can think for himself it would make the coach feel redundant.
Its why we now I believe see the Australian Professional teams struggling especially the Wallabies, while things are going to plan we look like world beaters, but then when things don't go to script they can't adapt and work their way out of it they just look clueless. This is something the Kiwi's worked out sometime ago.
And I roughly Quote from a statement from the Rugby Director of one of NZ leading nursery's (produced no less then 36 All Blacks) "we teach the boys to think on the run and play whats in front of them we don't want them out there been robots". I can't remember if they were his exact words but it was the guts of what he was saying.
I have seen time and time again very talented kids with great rugby minds that have come out of the club and rep system beaten into submission by their school coaches because they dared to think a bit and try something different. All they achieve is to demoralize the kid.
You all ways hear the stories of which schoolboy players go to which Super Franchise etc. but you never hear the stories of the boys that never pick up a set of boots again after they leave school and I am talking first 15 players, there is quite a drop out rate, they have basically had a gut full.

And while I am in the mood for a rant, the school shall remain nameless but you can probably work it out. I remember seeing the preseason rugby handbook the school sends out each year and I have never seen such a case of blatant self promotion then by those that run the rugby program. How this superstar went here that one there, just pages of it. Nothing about the other 500 kids or so that play rugby in the school or that D team that went through undefeated last year. It was a real turn off and put a lot of parents off.
This same school then brings in 6 new imports into grade 11 at the start of this year and also another one into grade 10, and these are the ones that we know off and they think they are building a great culture within the school and everyone should be happy and go along with it. I can tell you that is far from reality.
The sooner that some of these people realize that this is school boy rugby and not an audition for a job down at Queensland Reds or such, the better things will become and I am sure the game will not suffer for it.

 

[Blue & white]

And while I am in the mood for a rant, the school shall remain nameless but you can probably work it out. I remember seeing the preseason rugby handbook the school sends out each year and I have never seen such a case of blatant self promotion then by those that run the rugby program. How this superstar went here that one there, just pages of it. Nothing about the other 500 kids or so that play rugby in the school or that D team that went through undefeated last year. It was a real turn off and put a lot of parents off.
This same school then brings in 6 new imports into grade 11 at the start of this year and also another one into grade 10, and these are the ones that we know off and they think they are building a great culture within the school and everyone should be happy and go along with it. I can tell you that is far from reality.



Yes I saw that. But the sun & surf had faded my copy.
6 imports ??
There were 8 new boys in grade 10 last year. and 4 in grade 11 this year.
But -that is small compared to the new boys in swimming.

 

[Blue & white]

ps TSS are 6to 5 favourites to undefeated in the 2nd xv again.Will that be 6 premierships in a row ?

 

[Realist]

And while I am in the mood for a rant, the school shall remain nameless but you can probably work it out. I remember seeing the preseason rugby handbook the school sends out each year and I have never seen such a case of blatant self promotion then by those that run the rugby program. How this superstar went here that one there, just pages of it. Nothing about the other 500 kids or so that play rugby in the school or that D team that went through undefeated last year. It was a real turn off and put a lot of parents off.
This same school then brings in 6 new imports into grade 11 at the start of this year and also another one into grade 10, and these are the ones that we know off and they think they are building a great culture within the school and everyone should be happy and go along with it. I can tell you that is far from reality.



Yes I saw that. But the sun & surf had faded my copy.
6 imports ??
There were 8 new boys in grade 10 last year. and 4 in grade 11 this year.
But -that is small compared to the new boys in swimming.

Actually the school I was referring too is a long way from the surf.
Sounds as though they are all trying to out do each other in a race to the bottom

 

[Blanco]

GPS schools are hardwired to exceed and excel in all areas of their curriculum , this is why people send children to them.
Excellence in the arts, the academic world and on the sporting field is of upmost importance. This is why they offer scholarships into those areas, they want the best, it will not change and I don't think it should. In my view the parents tend to get more upset than the children, understandably, however these schools won't change. I think it is better for Rugby anyway.

 

[Realist]

GPS schools are hardwired to exceed and excel in all areas of their curriculum , this is why people send children to them.
Excellence in the arts, the academic world and on the sporting field is of upmost importance. This is why they offer scholarships into those areas, they want the best, it will not change and I don't think it should. In my view the parents tend to get more upset than the children, understandably, however these schools won't change. I think it is better for Rugby anyway.

Quite reasonable and valid points. But tell me this.
A lot of imports come from league and then when they finish school they go back to league. While ever you have one of these guys there they are taking away the opportunity for someone who is generally dedicated to Rugby to be given the chance to excel and further develop there game at the elite level.
How can this be good for Rugby?
Also it is generally accepted that school boy and GPS Rugby in particular is the nursery and preferred pathway in the eyes of the ARU to profession Rugby.
If this is the case I would think that the performance of our national and Super teams would be a good indication of how well the schools are doing their job in developing Rugby Players.

 

[Blanco]

Quite reasonable and valid points. But tell me this.
A lot of imports come from league and then when they finish school they go back to league. While ever you have one of these guys there they are taking away the opportunity for someone who is generally dedicated to Rugby to be given the chance to excel and further develop there game at the elite level.
How can this be good for Rugby?
Also it is generally accepted that school boy and GPS Rugby in particular is the nursery and preferred pathway in the eyes of the ARU to profession Rugby.
If this is the case I would think that the performance of our national and Super teams would be a good indication of how well the schools are doing their job in developing Rugby Players.

Your first point I have no argument, we are a nation where league and union will always compete for the same type of athlete, league tends to be more aggressive in nature in procurement . We can only hope the ARU does a better job of holding onto the players that are nurtured in the GPS system. I would argue that the players pathway after school is somewhat out of the schools hands, in the main.

On your second point, I think the GPS system might say, that we came 2nd in the last World Cup, which is the benchmark of world rugby.