Qld Premier Rugby 2012
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Panda_TRUFC
Bob McCowan (2)
Does prems get broadcast on ABC like the shute shield does? I'm in tas die and keen to watch some prems games.
Unfortunately it doesn't Panda. In the late 90's they would play a match at Ballymore on a Friday night and replay it the following day but the QRU had to pay for the privilege. There was an opportunity this year as the Q Cup (local league comp) moved from ABC to channel 9.
twenty seven
Tom Lawton (22)
Thanks for the report On Franky Bourke. Where did you find it please?
spectator
Bob Davidson (42)
Should be a ripper game this one. Brothers have really surprised me this year. Always knew they would be competitive but they have beaten some teams who have looked considerably stronger on paper.
TheBigDog
Nev Cottrell (35)
Brothers have been very strong this year. I'm tipping them to be there in the Grand Final this year, if they stay healthy. Seems like a team full of solid role players who get the job done. Odd though how strong their Premier Grade side is compared to other grades (Brothers reserve grade lost 44-3 v GPS) and especially Colts (Brothers Prem colts lost 48-0 v GPS). Will be interesting to see what happens in the latter half of the competition if a few injuries set in and how their depth goes.
WESTCOMBE RANGER
Allen Oxlade (6)
Tigerland -
Got to say I never thought I'd ever evidence support for the scum from anyone outside the inner sanctum.
.
They're actualy playing UNI this week, so you can detract your support of the filth for this week. Now doesn't that make you feel better ...?
.
Ranger
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
Oh shit what was I thinking off!? haha. In that case yep all Is taken back, GO UNI FUCK THE FILTH!
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
I live near it aswell, nowhere near that bad, its just been the usuall shitty rain, and you'd think Chipsy Wood would drain well because its a bit higher up.
Few results back from todays game
Brothers 24-21 University
Easts 22-13 Norths
GPS 26-10 Gold Coast
Wests 30-16 Sunnybank
Wests fucking my tipping haha
SouthernX
Jim Lenehan (48)
Okay everyone, this is my first post for the year (there's a chance this will be a year's worth of a post too...). I apologise for the rant about to happen.
Uni went down to Brothers at Brothers (this will become important later) in the usual tight game, exacerbated by the totally ordinary weather that everyone was playing in around Brisbane. However, I didn't see the last 10 mins or so, and here's why...
Any video footage that will be available will show Guy Shepherdson being manhandled by me off the field with him looking like an extra from a D-grade slasher film due to the blood pouring down his face. Without going into gory details he had a massive laceration on his scalp - one of those that is impossible to stop bleeding with just pressure applied. What happened next is almost comical except no one was - or is yet - laughing.
I am sure there are many current and ex players that remember 'the good old days' where, if someone needed sutures, there was someone who would put their hand up, their beer down on the counter, and manage somehow to close the cut all to varying degrees of success. And these stitch-jobs were always without local anaesthetic. Well, those 'good old days' are alive and well at Brothers 2012!!
With Shep attempting to exsanguinate (bleed-out) on field, no-one except Uni people came to our aid. I took Shep straight into the (open) medical room and luckily one of our props wasn't playing today, because his job is a doctor in an emergency dept in Brisbane (so I found out last week). Dr Arvier (the father of one of our players) also came to see if he could help. About this time we discovered we couldn't find any local anaesthetic or sterile gloves in the room. Suture material yes... So we did the only thing we could to stop the bleeding - sutured him with no anaesthetic. It took more than half an hour. Just think about that if it was your head. Still no Brothers doc found, even at the end.
With the suturing under control I went searching to see if there was actually a Brothers doc. The Brothers physio told me there was 'but he had been drinking' and 'someone else had just been sutured with no anaesthetic'. About this time I started to get very cranky. I have been involved with Uni rugby for 11 years, and I have heard this same excuse every year. Don't get me wrong - I completely understand that there are many expenses involved with running a sporting club and everyone is fighting for the same sponsorship dollar.
By now I am sure everyone is nodding their heads and saying 'this is just Brothers'. But these are my reasons for my continuing ire:
PS Shep's Man-Brand is now bulletproof in my eyes. Unbelievable.
Uni went down to Brothers at Brothers (this will become important later) in the usual tight game, exacerbated by the totally ordinary weather that everyone was playing in around Brisbane. However, I didn't see the last 10 mins or so, and here's why...
Any video footage that will be available will show Guy Shepherdson being manhandled by me off the field with him looking like an extra from a D-grade slasher film due to the blood pouring down his face. Without going into gory details he had a massive laceration on his scalp - one of those that is impossible to stop bleeding with just pressure applied. What happened next is almost comical except no one was - or is yet - laughing.
I am sure there are many current and ex players that remember 'the good old days' where, if someone needed sutures, there was someone who would put their hand up, their beer down on the counter, and manage somehow to close the cut all to varying degrees of success. And these stitch-jobs were always without local anaesthetic. Well, those 'good old days' are alive and well at Brothers 2012!!
With Shep attempting to exsanguinate (bleed-out) on field, no-one except Uni people came to our aid. I took Shep straight into the (open) medical room and luckily one of our props wasn't playing today, because his job is a doctor in an emergency dept in Brisbane (so I found out last week). Dr Arvier (the father of one of our players) also came to see if he could help. About this time we discovered we couldn't find any local anaesthetic or sterile gloves in the room. Suture material yes... So we did the only thing we could to stop the bleeding - sutured him with no anaesthetic. It took more than half an hour. Just think about that if it was your head. Still no Brothers doc found, even at the end.
With the suturing under control I went searching to see if there was actually a Brothers doc. The Brothers physio told me there was 'but he had been drinking' and 'someone else had just been sutured with no anaesthetic'. About this time I started to get very cranky. I have been involved with Uni rugby for 11 years, and I have heard this same excuse every year. Don't get me wrong - I completely understand that there are many expenses involved with running a sporting club and everyone is fighting for the same sponsorship dollar.
By now I am sure everyone is nodding their heads and saying 'this is just Brothers'. But these are my reasons for my continuing ire:
- When are clubs going to take responsibility for the medical care of the players at their field? Will they or the QRU/ARU have to be sued for negligence before the term 'medically qualified personnel' gets clarified. After last year I cannot even believe this is still an issue.
- I believe the funding model for Premier Rugby has now changed and the money comes directly from ARU. Each club now has to show they have adequate structure and supports in place for continuing funding. I believe this was why I was asked (along with the other trainers, doctor) several months ago what my qualifications were so Uni could show that we had this in place. I am curious if Brothers have indicated to the ARU that they have a doctor at their home games. Because I can't see how someone who has been drinking and who could not supply BASIC suturing equipment should still be considered to be acting as the club doctor at home games.
- Surely within a club that goes from Under 6 to Premier grade, there would be a parent/brother/sister/other family member, or ex-player (or maybe even like us, a current prop) who could bring some local anaesthetic and stay off the grog and be available to help the Premier grade teams at their HOME games. As an example, at Uni we get our doctors by asking old boys, occasionally smiling sweetly at the parents of some of our players, or through contacts with other people involved with the club. This is a continual process all year, and it can be a painful process, but it's simply not an option to not have a doctor for at least the afternoon (they usually start at 12). We know other clubs have doctors only for Premier grade, but at least we know that the Reds and Academy players (and the rest of the Premier grade players) will have access to a doctor. My point is that a) it doesn't have to break any budgets, and b) what price should we put on player welfare?
- Clubs now want and expect the Reds and Academy players to play club rugby each week. Today Uni had 2 Reds squad players and 1 Academy player, and Brothers fielded 1 Reds player and 1 Academy player (as far as I am aware). Potentially this could blow out to bigger numbers if all players were available later in the season. Brothers play Sunnybank at Crosby Park next week. They still have to play GPS and Easts at home yet. I can't even begin to count how many potential Reds and Academy players will be playing in those teams. They, along with Uni, all provide a doctor at their home game. And those doctors don't care what team you play for - they'll treat anyone at the ground, regardless of club, grade etc.
- Also in this same vein, I wonder if Reds coaching staff would eventually consider pulling their players from that game if they know there is not an acceptable level of medical coverage at the field? This is not a threat or a suggestion, just putting it out there
- We all know that Gold Coast and Norths have never had a doctor at their games and are doing it tough financially. However, we all know this heading into those games, and speaking for Uni we put measures in place to deal with this. In this case, Brothers actually had a doctor, but in the next breath we were told that it was best not to use him.
PS Shep's Man-Brand is now bulletproof in my eyes. Unbelievable.
happyjack
Sydney Middleton (9)
There is nothing in generic Rugby policy that requires a doctor to be in attendance at a game. It has been convention to have one there for Premier Rugby although there are only a handful of clubs that comply.
Almost all amateur Rugby (Junior & Senior) operates without a doctor and operates within quite safe conventions through the use of properly trained and appointed sports medicine trainers and associated equipment, policies and procedures.
Unfortunately it is mandatory for a doctor to be in attendance at any game that an ARU contracted player participates in so the Reds would be within their rights to refuse the participation of contracted players.
As you have experienced there is a greater variation in ability among doctors than there is among sports trainers so simply having a doctor who has a poor knowledge and integration with Rugby & sports med protocols is near on a waste of time.
In such cases they may be able to suture, but they are useless for other care. i would actually argue that there is more real value in having a defibrilator on hand than a poorly prepared and integrated doctor.
i would thoroughly support a risk management review of competition medical procedures however it needs to be far more wide ranging than simply focusing on the doctor.
Almost all amateur Rugby (Junior & Senior) operates without a doctor and operates within quite safe conventions through the use of properly trained and appointed sports medicine trainers and associated equipment, policies and procedures.
Unfortunately it is mandatory for a doctor to be in attendance at any game that an ARU contracted player participates in so the Reds would be within their rights to refuse the participation of contracted players.
As you have experienced there is a greater variation in ability among doctors than there is among sports trainers so simply having a doctor who has a poor knowledge and integration with Rugby & sports med protocols is near on a waste of time.
In such cases they may be able to suture, but they are useless for other care. i would actually argue that there is more real value in having a defibrilator on hand than a poorly prepared and integrated doctor.
i would thoroughly support a risk management review of competition medical procedures however it needs to be far more wide ranging than simply focusing on the doctor.
I absolutely agree with you Happyjack, except just to say that I have only consistently found that the two above mentioned clubs are the only ones to not have doctor there. Granted, some are hard to locate and the hours in attendance vary, but all the other clubs have them.
I didn't know it was mandatory for an ARU contracted player. Where would I find this written? Or is it another understanding? If this is the case I would think it would also encompass all the Academy players because they are contracted to the ARU, not individual franchises now. I would hate to find out the 'elite' players were being held back from playing just because of this reason.
My focus at this time was on the suturing aspect because that was what I was dealing with. But I do wonder when the ARU or QRU will do a risk management review as you have suggested? What will it take? Over the past 12 months there has been one death in rugby union, several in AFL, one in field hockey (at just a quick recall from a tired brain). As distressing as these catastrophic events are, the more concerning are the 'near misses' that we have all seen as a spectator or player.
We are becoming a more litigious society overall. The old days of 'what happens on field stays on field' are fast diminishing. Both amateur and professional players are becoming stronger and faster... well, usually... There is a collision course of disastrous proportions concerning medical liability heading one sporting code's way and when that happens everyone will duck and think 'thank god it didn't happen to us'.
A review has to happen soon. But until then clubs have to man up and take some responsibility for this.
I didn't know it was mandatory for an ARU contracted player. Where would I find this written? Or is it another understanding? If this is the case I would think it would also encompass all the Academy players because they are contracted to the ARU, not individual franchises now. I would hate to find out the 'elite' players were being held back from playing just because of this reason.
My focus at this time was on the suturing aspect because that was what I was dealing with. But I do wonder when the ARU or QRU will do a risk management review as you have suggested? What will it take? Over the past 12 months there has been one death in rugby union, several in AFL, one in field hockey (at just a quick recall from a tired brain). As distressing as these catastrophic events are, the more concerning are the 'near misses' that we have all seen as a spectator or player.
We are becoming a more litigious society overall. The old days of 'what happens on field stays on field' are fast diminishing. Both amateur and professional players are becoming stronger and faster... well, usually... There is a collision course of disastrous proportions concerning medical liability heading one sporting code's way and when that happens everyone will duck and think 'thank god it didn't happen to us'.
A review has to happen soon. But until then clubs have to man up and take some responsibility for this.
K
KelseyMan
Guest
A fair report. It's not just Brothers - I suspect quite a few clubs don't have properly trained medical staff on hand and off the piss. Sounds like this was a significant suturing job, but even so, a gashed head is a relatively minor injury. Where there is scope for the shit to really hit the fan is with potentially very serious head or spinal injuries. In my experience, with junior rugby in particular, serious attention is paid to treating these properly. There is a limit, however, to what can be expected of "medics" who attend most games - junior and senior. Especially given the current funding model, it's clearly up to the ARU to take responsibility for ensuring that Premier Grade matches, at the very least, are covered by properly experienced medical staff.
Cat_A
Arch Winning (36)
Heather's post is only referring to PREMIER rugby, where clubs receive funding from the ARU direct. Agree 100% with how tough life is in clubland, but the Premier clubs receive a grant from the ARU.
The exceptions of Gold Coast & Norths may also be attributable to them not having medical rooms available n
The exceptions of Gold Coast & Norths may also be attributable to them not having medical rooms available n
Ignoto
Greg Davis (50)
Through the two different schools Ive been involved in, there has always been a doctor on duty (granted its a father on duty). But if the schools can organize a doctor for the day or half day, surely the clubs can do the same.
SouthernX
Jim Lenehan (48)
Disagree, school rugby is usually played amongst private schools. You'd have better chances of gaining volunteer DR at school rugby games because
A) Child being sent to GPS/AIC school usually has more chance of having a father who is a doctor/lawyer etc.
B) At School Rugby. The fathers are unable to drink whilst they watch their son & so when their son progresses to Premier grade club rugby they are busy hanging out with mates drinking at Brothers v Uni matches (more likely enjoying the burden of not having commitments to children on saturday sports & have decided to enjoy their Saturdays with a bit of R&R after baysitting for a good 18 years previously every Saturday at school sports)
happyjack
Sydney Middleton (9)
We need to be careful what we are wishing for here.
The reality is that club Rugby is governed and predominantly resourced by volunteers via NFP incorporated associations.
To the best of my knowledge nobody has ever been found criminally or civilly negligent for a death or permanent disability in Rugby. The law at this point favours that Rugby is acting reasonably in managing policy in such an environment.
If the game is that unsafe that we need extensive professional medical support to guarantee player safety then the game should not be played at all.
It isn't and we don't.
The IRB and ARU provide comprehensive safety directives as part of their by-laws which all clubs need to ensure they are conversant and compliant with.
The biggest threat to the game from a brand and liability risk perspective is concussion and its management. Both 60 Minutes and 4 Corners have run stories on possible casual relationships between head trauma in contact sport and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE).
One of the best things we could do is to create a database linked to MRA registration for each player so that we can track any injury/trauma to a player and the treatment that was provided. A system such as this would soon highlight which clubs are managing the physical welfare of the players and which are not.
The reality is that club Rugby is governed and predominantly resourced by volunteers via NFP incorporated associations.
To the best of my knowledge nobody has ever been found criminally or civilly negligent for a death or permanent disability in Rugby. The law at this point favours that Rugby is acting reasonably in managing policy in such an environment.
If the game is that unsafe that we need extensive professional medical support to guarantee player safety then the game should not be played at all.
It isn't and we don't.
The IRB and ARU provide comprehensive safety directives as part of their by-laws which all clubs need to ensure they are conversant and compliant with.
The biggest threat to the game from a brand and liability risk perspective is concussion and its management. Both 60 Minutes and 4 Corners have run stories on possible casual relationships between head trauma in contact sport and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE).
One of the best things we could do is to create a database linked to MRA registration for each player so that we can track any injury/trauma to a player and the treatment that was provided. A system such as this would soon highlight which clubs are managing the physical welfare of the players and which are not.
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