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Reds 2015

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bloodred

Fred Wood (13)
Interestingly I have refrained from entering discussions for some time due to the fact that I had nothing positive to contribute other than supporting the Reds for 10+ years. My girlfriend doesn't like me attending all games so while they will still be my team, I have other options
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
I am more than willing to highlight the flaws in the coaching. But is it potentially possible that the Reds management have looked, and there is nobody suitable available?

Surely this isn't just some devious plot by the management to force Richard Graham onto the fans. What do they get out of this?

If there is no viable replacement, what action can they take going forward? I read somebody post an off the cuff remark that they should just let Quade coach. At the time I thought, "hey, can't do any worse and probably will work better". But then I thought further. Who's going to management the squad and the recruitment for 2016? That's the issue. Say what you want about Graham, but he recruited very well.

Coming into the season where was the big question mark?

It wasn't at 10. We all knew we had Quade, with Duncan, JOC (James O'Connor), Hunt and McIntyre all as injury back ups. For a player who is only going to miss games if injured, and is your out and out starting player you cannot allocate huge funds to a back up who isn't a starter somewhere else.

The questions marks were over the front row in fact. How have we gone there? I think excluding 2 games (Brumbies and Tahs at Suncorp) we've fucking dominated there. Are scrum has only improved from 2013 and we have 2 great young THP prospects coming through.

It was an astutely put together squad. Potentially deficiencies - but so does every squad. We could poke flaws in Cheika's 2014 Tahs squad, but luck went his way, depths in weak positions wasn't tested, only strong positions.

So now the questions becomes what's best? Surely moving Graham on can only improve 2015. It's not working, he's had ample opportunity. Surely even management can see that.

The problem because if Graham leaves, nobody is looking at the squad for 2016. None of the assistants are ready to step up, based on what they've managed to get out of fringe players they've got a long way to go. What if they boot Graham, can't find a replacement and as a result they lose players and struggle to actively chase recruits? Where are we then? 2016 is over before it's even started.

This has been an interesting case. I have always thought that football clubs of all codes had been far to quick to sack coaches. Players know they can ride out any coach they don't like if a team isn't performing, and that completely undermines the coaches authority.

The Reds have strongly backed their coach, basically saying they won't be held to ransom by the players. I actually somewhat respect this course of action, unless they are completely ignoring the issues.
 

Gillys_ghost

Dave Cowper (27)
Surely there are options though. Matt Taylor very well might be happy with the Scotland gig, but Brian Smith is currently coaching one of the Sydney Shute Shield teams isnt he? i think we could do worse than him.
 

bloodred

Fred Wood (13)
Say what you want about Graham, but he recruited very well.

Coming into the season where was the big question mark?

It wasn't at 10. We all knew we had Quade, with Duncan, JOC (James O'Connor), Hunt and McIntyre all as injury back ups. For a player who is only going to miss games if injured, and is your out and out starting player you cannot allocate huge funds to a back up who isn't a starter somewhere else.




I have to disagree here. Two of the back-up options you mentioned were not playing rugby. Does RG think anyone can successfully steer a S15 team around the paddock. Make one of them VC. Poor recruiting, spent way too much on KH, unknown quantity
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Serious question. Does Graham have a successful track record as a coach, at any level of the game? If so, for whom, and when?
 

Wilson

David Codey (61)
I am more than willing to highlight the flaws in the coaching. But is it potentially possible that the Reds management have looked, and there is nobody suitable available?

Possibly, but you have to ask some serious questions about the back office when the best coach the reds can attract is Richard Graham. We've got one of the more enviable talent pools, the largest fan base in Australian rugby, one of the largest ave attendances in Australian sport and we've been making more money for more years then any other Australian side. If we can't get anyone better than Graham things are much worse than they first appeared, for us and for Australian rugby.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
I have to disagree here. Two of the back-up options you mentioned were not playing rugby. Does RG think anyone can successfully steer a S15 team around the paddock. Make one of them VC. Poor recruiting, spent way too much on KH, unknown quantity

So they had a player who was test capped at 10, and the NRC champions 10?

What do you expect?

Look at the Waratahs. 10 back up? Beale and Volavola. Surely you can't say either are significantly better options at 10 than JOC (James O'Connor) and McIntyre.

And regardless, if you feel that 1 player in a squad of 32 is the wrong recruit, that's not poor recruitment, that's one player in a large squad that wasn't the best option.

Didn't McKenzie bring Lei Tomiki to the Reds? Despite the fact he wasn't even used and had zero utility value, we didn't judge him on that one player.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Possibly, but you have to ask some serious questions about the back office when the best coach the reds can attract is Richard Graham. We've got one of the more enviable talent pools, the largest fan base in Australian rugby, one of the largest ave attendances in Australian sport and we've been making more money for more years then any other Australian side. If we can't get anyone better than Graham things are much worse than they first appeared, for us and for Australian rugby.


I agree with your points. But you can only recruit a coach who is available. What if all the best options are under contract? What do they do? Settle and hope for the best?

Can anybody name a good coach that they think is available? I'm interested to know. We can discuss whether they definitely are available, but who do we even think is out there?
 

bloodred

Fred Wood (13)
So they had a player who was test capped at 10, and the NRC champions 10?

What do you expect?

Look at the Waratahs. 10 back up? Beale and Volavola. Surely you can't say either are significantly better options at 10 than JOC (James O'Connor) and McIntyre.

And regardless, if you feel that 1 player in a squad of 32 is the wrong recruit, that's not poor recruitment, that's one player in a large squad that wasn't the best option.

Didn't McKenzie bring Lei Tomiki to the Reds? Despite the fact he wasn't even used and had zero utility value, we didn't judge him on that one player.


But 10 is a very pivotal position (as proven). While JOC (James O'Connor) may be serviceable (at a stretch) and McIntyre showed that he is not ready, DP and KH were dreadful
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
He's coaching GPS Rugby in Sydney. He's one that came to mind for me.

Why is he doing that? Could he not get another professional level role? My only guess is that he wants to be in Sydney.

Is anybody able to shed any light on Brian Smith's situation? Surely he would be a reasonable option for us?
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
But 10 is a very pivotal position (as proven). While JOC (James O'Connor) may be serviceable (at a stretch) and McIntyre showed that he is not ready, DP and KH were dreadful


You've completely missed my point. Our recruitment at 10 is on par with last years champions. Did Cheika recruit badly?

And McIntyre I'm pretty sure has not "showed he is not ready" considering he played in the NRC final and has been injured, and therefore not played for the Reds in 2015. Not sure when he showed he wasn't ready.
 
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Wilson

David Codey (61)
I agree with your points. But you can only recruit a coach who is available. What if all the best options are under contract? What do they do? Settle and hope for the best?

Can anybody name a good coach that they think is available? I'm interested to know. We can discuss whether they definitely are available, but who do we even think is out there?
Tim lane was fired from Lyon this year, he has achieved success at multiple levels reasonably consistently and coaches an attractive, entertaining brand of rugby thats actually worth watching. Haven't heard any news of him being snapped up yet.

Contracts can be broken and I find it difficult to believe there are so few coaches better than Graham that one can't be found. At some point they have to face the reality that he's shown little improvement in his considerable time as a head coach, even after the tutelage from link. Right now we're getting to the point where taking a punt on unproven potential would be better than persisting with Graham.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Whilst you could say we don't want to go hiring a coach that was fired from his last role, it certainly worked out well last time (Pretty sure I said it last time too).
 

bloodred

Fred Wood (13)
You've completely missed my point. Our recruitment at 10 is on par with last years champions. Did Cheika recruit badly?

And McIntyre I'm pretty sure has not "showed he is not ready" considering he played in the NRC final and has been injured, and therefore not played for the Reds in 2015. Not sure when he showed he wasn't ready.


I believe that he needs more time to be ready for S15. I don't want to be too critical but his effort in GF I think fell a little short and I wasn't convinced by his NRC efforts. He will make it in the long run. You mention Volavola nd Beale- both better options than Reds. They also had the Shute Shield 10 (can't remember his name) as back up
 

Wilson

David Codey (61)
Whilst you could say we don't want to go hiring a coach that was fired from his last role, it certainly worked out well last time (Pretty sure I said it last time too).
Yeah, both chieka and link were fired in France before immediately before winning super rugby titles I think, it's almost an indicator of quality for Australian coaches at this point. ;)
 
T

Train Without a Station

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In 2014 Beale showed how good an option he was at 10. He was no better than JOC (James O'Connor) in 2013.

How did Volavola play in the NRC? I can only assume you have assessed him being better than McIntyre based on that as he has barely played Super Rugby. I don't think he has added to his 8 caps since 2013.
 
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bloodred

Fred Wood (13)
In 2014 Beale showed how good an option he was at 10. He was no better than JOC (James O'Connor) in 2013.

How did Volavola play in the NRC? I can only assume you have assessed him being better than McIntyre based on that as he has barely played Super Rugby. I don't think he has added to his 8 caps since 2013.


In relation to Volavola, he wasn't required because they had Beale as back-up and Foley played near every game. When was the last time Quadey played a whole season. The point I am making (hindsight is a good thing) is that in such a pivotal position the wrong strings were pulled. That's it
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
In relation to Volavola, he wasn't required because they had Beale as back-up and Foley played near every game. When was the last time Quadey played a whole season. The point I am making (hindsight is a good thing) is that in such a pivotal position the wrong strings were pulled. That's it

Exactly.

Success with a limited squad size requires luck with injuries in positions with minimal depth.

Now look at the Brumbies, they have CLL who is a better back up than JOC (James O'Connor), but then what do they have? Even still, CLL is not at all setting the world alight at 10. Still, he also played less Super Rugby or higher games at 10 than JOC (James O'Connor).


If the coaching staff foresaw that Quade would have 2 broken bones in 2 different shoulders in 2015, they should give up rugby and starting being professional gamblers for a living.

Injury history is not an indicator if it's completely different types of injuries to different joints.

Now QC (Quade Cooper) has had a knee recon, then a shoulder recon, then a broken collar bone, then a broken scapular.

We aren't talking about Pocock and David Dennis who have had multiple ligament injuries to their knees.
 
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