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Reds v. Force Super Rugby Round 6 2012

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ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
For a team which was tipped to run 4th or 5th in the aussie conference this year, they have looked the best of the Aus teams so far.


When playing teams who have the same strengths and when they finally get the attacking balance right. Anyone with a strong backline will run around the Force.

But it was a thing of beauty tonight as a Force fan watching them punch it up tight and then finally fling it wide when appropriate, and Cummins has to stay in at 13. I was gutted to lose Inman, as I thought he was our answer to long term 13. Now thinking about it, Cummins has always had an amazing ability to bend the line but rarely beats a man one on one. He makes a perfect 13, makes the gain line and recycles quickly while being a stout defender in the most difficult position to defend. Robbies penchant for straight running centres would surely bring him into Wallaby squad calculations.

Edit: But I should have said that Robbie won't be interested in Cummins now Woody has picked him at 13. How is Dingo supposed to pick a complete backline of players out of their regular positions if those pesky super coaches keep playing them in their best positions.
 
W

Waylon

Guest
When playing teams who have the same strengths and when they finally get the attacking balance right. Anyone with a strong backline will run around the Force.

But it was a thing of beauty tonight as a Force fan watching them punch it up tight and then finally fling it wide when appropriate, and Cummins has to stay in at 13. I was gutted to lose Inman, as I thought he was our answer to long term 13. Now thinking about it, Cummins has always had an amazing ability to bend the line but rarely beats a man one on one. He makes a perfect 13, makes the gain line and recycles quickly while being a stout defender in the most difficult position to defend. Robbies penchant for straight running centres would surely bring him into Wallaby squad calculations.

Edit: But I should have said that Robbie won't be interested in Cummins now Woody has picked him at 13. How is Dingo supposed to pick a complete backline of players out of their regular positions if those pesky super coaches keep playing them in their best positions.

I like Cummins at 13 but his defence has gone backwards. He runs straight and hard a'la Spanner.

A great effort by the lads. The kicking game is absolute toilet though
 

Sandpit Fan

Nev Cottrell (35)
When playing teams who have the same strengths and when they finally get the attacking balance right. Anyone with a strong backline will run around the Force.

But it was a thing of beauty tonight as a Force fan watching them punch it up tight and then finally fling it wide when appropriate, and Cummins has to stay in at 13. I was gutted to lose Inman, as I thought he was our answer to long term 13. Now thinking about it, Cummins has always had an amazing ability to bend the line but rarely beats a man one on one. He makes a perfect 13, makes the gain line and recycles quickly while being a stout defender in the most difficult position to defend. Robbies penchant for straight running centres would surely bring him into Wallaby squad calculations.

Edit: But I should have said that Robbie won't be interested in Cummins now Woody has picked him at 13. How is Dingo supposed to pick a complete backline of players out of their regular positions if those pesky super coaches keep playing them in their best positions.

I actually meant the Brumbies mate...:)
 
M

Moono75

Guest
That was exactly what should have happened. No fairly tales this time. The Reds were ravaged by injuries...the Force should have caned them and they did. Force on message....result followed what was expected.
 
C

Cave Dweller

Guest
The Reds B team did well to hold on but at one point it had to give and luckily the floodgates open with the game almost finished.
 

biggsy

Chilla Wilson (44)
I don't think ewin will give shitz and gill a start next week. Big call leaving beau and simminos and samo out or on the sideline to start. I'm liking the brumbies at the moment and if the reds bring that to suncorp the brumbies will pump them on there home soil, Plus they have a killer kicker
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Force deserved the win in every respect, well done, and they were disciplined as well, a leading position didn't go to their heads and start risky plays. Harvey's place kicking excellent. And definite improvements on show by Force backs generally.

The weakness of the Reds script disallows us knowing how much of this the Force can replicate against much better teams, the Reds forwards offered themselves up. Waylon, minus gloating, has the right assessment.

As I've said earlier, the Reds' version 2012 is, sadly, a deteriorated machine on 2011's version against virtually every skill parameter. No 2011 skill level or playing intensity variable has held its ground. Period. Our appalling performance last night was, relative to recent achievement and reasonable expectation, the worst of any Australian team in many a year.

Newter in his last post here well highlighted how our forwards have lost intensity and accuracy, with the obvious results: every week our capability to win the upfront battles has worsened, with the consequent results in low tries scored from fast ball and low bonus points for losses.

Our handling and ball security has been woefully error prone since Round 1, and has not improved as was evident last night.

Genia is slowly losing composure under the pressure of our forwards startling deficiencies in application and aggression, and pursuing risky and frenetic work vs historically disciplined creative energy around rucks and in open play. Worse are his shocking kicks under pressure when such are both poorly executed and the wrong option (see butchered try opportunity last night via the silliest of kicks).

Our backs are really the least of our problems, except as above they're spilling ball vastly more often than in 2011. The 'injured 10s' factor is mythical in justifying or explaining the current deterioration, the essential problem is forwards related, and then other weaknesses merely magnify this core, bleak mediocrity. The true big losses are QC (Quade Cooper) and Diggers, but they might as well rest up until the forwards are improved.

Defensive structures and application have again worsened in the last 3 games, and they were only just tolerable from Round 1. These crucial skill areas now look a sad reflection of 2011's defensive excellence.

Etc. The injuries are no explanation for all this. Rarely has a top team deteriorated so quickly in terms of hardness of team mind and overall skill level from a Final in July 2011, to a rambling mediocrity in March 2012 and one that represents a scary echo of the worst Reds' teams' culture and playing output of 2008-9. The next 4 or more games could well take the Reds right back to these years, and those memories.

Time to face hard facts, I do speak of facts not idle fan pessimism after one bad game. I'm working on an explanation, but speculation rules as to precisely why this consistent decline - finally rendered in the open vs a not-great team in Perth - has come to pass.

On a final note, if I see another flippant little fucking Tweet like the ones from Robinson over night, or more bland inanities tweeted by Link, I'll take the shotgun to Suncorp on Friday night. These poor judgements in communication in such wildly underachieving circumstances and following the 'when greatness calls' 2012 QRU tag line, reveal much.
 

redstragic

Alan Cameron (40)
I am a little sorry for myself today. Well played Force, you have shown this year how to take an ordinary back line and win through good forward play first which builds confidence in the backs.

Glad this stinking tour is over. Hopefully sleeping in their own beds and some home cooking will help them forget this miserable last month and we can move on.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
I understand we are all coming off some very dissapointing losses and all upset. Its the blame game and I love to take it out in the tah's. :) and for supporters that boo there own team, I didn't realise I was out of line.
The week is over and it was fucken terrible except for the well played Force. And the reds are still in front of the tah's on the ladder so that's great.
You're not out of line, Biggsy, I just disagreed with you. :)
Nice to see you reverting to that time-honoured yardstick for the Reds - better than the Tahs is OK. ;)
 

TheBigDog

Nev Cottrell (35)
RH - some really good points you make. Reds are really lacking intensity in attack and defence.

Just a few things which i've noticed.

Firstly, Genia is really having some brainfarts in both attack and defence (trying to kick the ball out of Sheehans hands, really????) He seems to be missing his old buddy Quade more and more each week and is resorting to some silly play. As the commentators said last night, Murphy was on the field not attacking at all, he was merely a distributor. Maybe moving Taps into 10 would take some pressure off Genia by putting a genuine attacking threat at first receiver. Genia's, at time rubbish play is also adding to the pressure the forwards are under as he seems to be second guessing himself at times.

Secondly, Link - please stop the 'rotation' you have the forward pack on. IMO there is clearly a best forward pack this season of Holmes, Hanson, Slipper, Humpries, Horwill, Higgers, Robinson and Samo. Beau seems to be adding a bit of mongrel that Gill isn't bringing yet and Samo, although old is still a major x-factor for the team. Shatz just seems to be running through the motions each game and making more errors than linebreaks which is something Samo can provide. I don't see how the forwards are supposed to get better and set their patterns when each week they have different blokes with different styles in the starting side. We've seen how hard it is for the backline to do this with so many injuries and now Link is doing it to the forwards when he doesn't have to.

Lastly - Rocket and Morahan weren't shocking last night which was my biggest (and really only) positive out of that game. I was really worried about these two but obviously someone blasted them at training during the week because they seemed to be more focused in both attack and defence. I'd say Morahan and Shippers were our best players last night, always seemed to make ground with the ball.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
This season only four players can hold their head up: Slipper, Higginbotham, Shipperely and Tapuai (to some extent).

The rest need to pull their finger out and start to show some heart and fight. The likes of Genia and Horwill need to start showing some leadership.

Yes tl12. That's 4 out of 22 or more. Perhaps I'd give Van some points, especially given age.

Gnostic texted me last night during the game v Force what on reflection haunted me as having a real ring of truth:

"Perhaps they achieved all they wanted last year."

It's as though many of our players have, as of now, no fire left, as if each had but a small trophy cabinet with one slot only in it and, now filled, they're just salaried employees, not champion warriors any more.
 

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
i am now wondering if Sanchez is capable of great games without QC (Quade Cooper). Maybe QC (Quade Cooper) is even better than we thought and he allows a less than great 9 look impressive.
 

The Red Baron

Chilla Wilson (44)
The forwards aren't playing as a unit. It was like watching a train wreck last night when a Reds forward would hit the ball up. You knew they were going to turn it over in the ensuing ruck. No forward support, resulting in getting badly beaten in contact. The backline wont have a crack because the forwards seem to refuse to secure the ball at the breakdown.Body height and positioning is all over the place.

Honestly, Genia also needs to be rested. His head is not with it. He infuriates me with his two step then pass routine, all that does is put more pressure on your ten, or your forward runners, as they are getting the ball with defenders bearing down on them. Not a good way to break the advantage line and win contact battles. All of Genias' poor decision making indicates that he has other things on his mind. He needs to go back and find out what motivates him to play.

Someone said on here before that the worst thing we could do is rush back QC (Quade Cooper). I agree. Quade ain't gonna do squat when the work ethic of the team is in the gutter. As one who studies culture, I would like to actually study the Reds culture at the moment. I would suspect that there is no individual problem, rather multiple issues that are impacting on each other. The guys need to sort it out and get the fire back.
 

TheBigDog

Nev Cottrell (35)
Honestly, Genia also needs to be rested. His head is not with it. He infuriates me with his two step then pass routine, all that does is put more pressure on your ten, or your forward runners, as they are getting the ball with defenders bearing down on them. Not a good way to break the advantage line and win contact battles. All of Genias' poor decision making indicates that he has other things on his mind. He needs to go back and find out what motivates him to play.

Couldn't agree more. Frisby seems to be a capable backup as well who is adding some spark when he comes on.
 

p.Tah

John Thornett (49)
i am now wondering if Sanchez is capable of great games without QC (Quade Cooper). Maybe QC (Quade Cooper) is even better than we thought and he allows a less than great 9 look impressive.
A good half back needs a good fly half and a good fly half needs a good half back. It's about trust and intuition. Genia's form is mediocre partly because of the standard of the back line, but also because the forwards are ordinary. Cooper wouldn't do well if he had poor service from the scum [edit: scrum! Should have also said ruck]. We saw that at the RWC when the forwards were bashed.
 

The Red Baron

Chilla Wilson (44)
A good half back needs a good fly half and a good fly half needs a good half back. It's about trust and intuition. Genia's form is mediocre partly because of the standard of the back line, but also because the forwards are ordinary. Cooper wouldn't do well if he had poor service from the scum. We saw that at the RWC when the forwards were bashed.

Now come on, we all know Genia is in a form slump, but we shouldn't resort to calling him names. :p
 
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