Reds vs Waratahs - 29th April RD 10

[teach]

Not giving a shit about the outcome, I thought it was one of the best Aussie derbies this year. Don't think the ref had much of an influence. Karmichael Hunt looked liked he wanted the win more than anyone else out there.

 

[fatprop]

Not giving a shit about the outcome, I thought it was one of the best Aussie derbies this year. Don't think the ref had much of an influence. Karmichael Hunt looked liked he wanted the win more than anyone else out there.

Karmichael Hunt looks like that every game, the guy is an out and out competitor, I think he could be our "Conrad Smith" for the Wobs

 

[wamberal]

Karmichael Hunt looks like that every game, the guy is an out and out competitor, I think he could be our "Conrad Smith" for the Wobs

Totally agree that he is totally committed, but he is a big rougher around the edges than Smith.

 

[wamberal]

Not giving a shit about the outcome, I thought it was one of the best Aussie derbies this year. Don't think the ref had much of an influence. Karmichael Hunt looked liked he wanted the win more than anyone else out there.

If every game was as good as that one, we would all be very, very happy.


The Hooper try was one of the slickest I have seen for a long while. Kudos to Hughie Roach for his lineout throwing, by the way.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Exciting game, no doubt. Congrats to the Tahs and their secret weapon.

The Ref was just disgraceful. Penalty count ridiculous. Bloke was inadequate and a joke.

How he didn't give Hoops a Y/C for deliberate cynical play beggars belief.

Hopefully SANZAR marks him "never to officiate at this level again"

Just about put me off rugby altogether

 

[TSR]

I think some people forget what an outstanding league player Hunt was. Whilst Folau's profile was on the rise at the time Hunt left league he was far more accomplished than Folau. Slater was being picked in the wing for QLD to accomodate Hunt at the back.

The other thing with Hunt, he really came into his own after being picked for the Kangaroos the first time - a selection which was considered left field when they first picked him. But from his first league test it was clear he was a competitor of the highest calibre, and stepped up at the higher levels.

His lack of form over the last 2 years almost all relate to his lack of size/weight from his stint in AFL, and the continual injury interruptions which came as a consequence to that (and of course the interruption due to his drug charges).

 

[biggsy]

Exciting game, no doubt. Congrats to the Tahs and their secret weapon.

Dean Mumm

 

[amirite]

I think some people forget what an outstanding league player Hunt was. Whilst Folau's profile was on the rise at the time Hunt left league he was far more accomplished than Folau. Slater was being picked in the wing for QLD to accomodate Hunt at the back.

The other thing with Hunt, he really came into his own after being picked for the Kangaroos the first time - a selection which was considered left field when they first picked him. But from his first league test it was clear he was a competitor of the highest calibre, and stepped up at the higher levels.

His lack of form over the last 2 years almost all relate to his lack of size/weight from his stint in AFL, and the continual injury interruptions which came as a consequence to that (and of course the interruption due to his drug charges).

Hunt looks pretty good in 2017. He has physical aggression and sets expectations for those around him in a way that I see few players match (though the later sometimes results in him giving blokes a spray, which is a bad look).

Selecting him as a Wallaby is as simple as considering upside/downside. His upside isn't that high, seeing as you could only get 4 good test years out of him, tops. But his downside isn't too bad, he's a good leader and covers a bunch of positions.

 

[TSR]

Not to seem argumentative Amirite, but if we can get 4 good years out of Karmichael, we should take it with both hands.

 

[amirite]

Not to seem argumentative Amirite, but if we can get 4 good years out of Karmichael, we should take it with both hands.

What I'm saying is that's the EXTREMELY optimistic ceiling.

In all likelihood, if he gets picked for the Wallabies, I think we get 2 years out of him (until the World Cup) and he's a squad utility covering 13-15.

 

[Braveheart81]

Pick your best players.

Hunt is clearly one of those this season.

You need to bring younger up and comers into the squad environment but there isn't really a lot of evidence to suggest that players will be better in a couple of years time because you've selected them for 20 tests you shouldn't have than if you'd just picked them when they were the best option.

I don't think you can really accelerate development purely through selection.

 

[TSR]

Pick your best players.

Hunt is clearly one of those this season.

You need to bring younger up and comers into the squad environment but there isn't really a lot of evidence to suggest that players will be better in a couple of years time because you've selected them for 20 tests you shouldn't have than if you'd just picked them when they were the best option.

I don't think you can really accelerate development purely through selection.

Agree 100% Braveheart. If anything, I think we've too often, sometimes through lack of alternatives, bought players through too quickly and not made them work hard enough. There is nothing wrong with giving them exposure to the squad and, if their form warrants it even picking them for a test or two. But we also shouldn't be afraid to leave them in super rugby or even club land a bit longer, or even send them back there after getting a taste of test rugby with a clear understanding of what they had to work on.

Of course, it's just not that easy. a lot of our selections, such as Reece Hodge, have been forced on Cheika early due to injuries/lack of depth. Young players are getting offered significant money OS earlier and earlier - so if they aren't getting a gold jersey early on they are increasingly taking the money option overseas (couldn't say I'd do any different if it was me.)

One final point, if we do only get 2 years out of Hunt I would be making sure as many young players as possible in the system spends some time training with him. And if he gives a few of them a rev up because their standards are sub par, then I hope the coaching staff backs him up.

 

[Melchior]

Praise Hunt.

After 3 years of playing rugby at, what $700K, he's finally started to look ok in a team which has not shone.

He had barely pulled on the Reds Jersey when he dragged it and the reputation of Rugby through the Mud.

People are welcome to their opinions on him and his rugby ability, but I find it difficult to separate the player and the person.

The Reds and Australian Rugby can both do without him.

 

[USARugger]

He had barely pulled on the Reds Jersey when he dragged it and the reputation of Rugby through the Mud.

Yeah because a bit of cocaine on the weekends is really thrashing the reputation of a sport that's produced it's own fair share of wife beaters, murderers, thieves, thugs, and criminals of all colors.

 

[Micheal]

Yeah because a bit of cocaine on the weekends is really thrashing the reputation of a sport that's produced it's own fair share of wife beaters, murderers, thieves, thugs, and criminals of all colors.

To be fair I'd also rather he smashes cocaine on the weekends over him smashing beers.

A bag on Saturday night? Generally well-behaved and alert, semi-euphoric and serotonin-levels low on Sunday but nothing that'll have a lasting impact throughout the week.

12+ beers on Saturday night? Sloppy, decision making poor, mood-swings, thousands of calories and a 1-2 day hangover that has effects well into the week.

The fact is, from what I've personally seen and anecdotes I've heard from people within the circles of professional AFL, NRL and Super Rugby teams, everyone is doing it.

Ironically, its not even unknown to the clubs and administrators. My roommates' great mate plays for an AFL club and they have a no cameras / smart-phones policy at their mad-Monday because the stuff is absolutely rife and done in the open.

As a 22 year old Uni student, everyone is doing it (maybe not coke, its outrageously priced here in Australia).

As a 22 year old who works for a large corporate, everyone is doing it.

As a 22 year old who played Subbies last year, everyone is doing it.

Karmichael got caught. Big whoop.

Edit: I know I give the above rant a lot here on the forums, but I feel like its something that has to be said.

Australia has the highest recreational drug use, and abuse, in the world on a per capita basis. We have the second highest prescription drug abuse on a per capita basis.

We have a very strongly entrenched drug culture, yet we refuse to acknowledge it in the public space and have different standards for every demographic. Yet we have a very strongly entrenched (and terrible) gambling / binge drinking culture and its almost celebrated.

There's a growing disconnect, especially between the youth and the baby boomers, on attitudes towards drugs and I feel almost responsible to represent my generation in this forum, lest it become an echo chamber.

 

[tragic]

Praise Hunt.

After 3 years of playing rugby at, what $700K, he's finally started to look ok in a team which has not shone.

He had barely pulled on the Reds Jersey when he dragged it and the reputation of Rugby through the Mud.

People are welcome to their opinions on him and his rugby ability, but I find it difficult to separate the player and the person.

The Reds and Australian Rugby can both do without him.

Harsh call.
Do you know him personally?
A number of people I know and have infinite respect for have done a line or two in their time. Most no longer do.
Move on, nothing to see here.

 

[teach]

If every game was as good as that one, we would all be very, very happy.


The Hooper try was one of the slickest I have seen for a long while. Kudos to Hughie Roach for his lineout throwing, by the way.

I don't rate Skelton at all, but even that big pudding looked motivated. He was pretty quick to dive on that loose ball towards the end. He probably hasn't hit the ground so fast since someone dropped a McNugget in front of him at Maccas.

 

[TOCC]

it is life mate, every day I expect I could be fined or arrested if every stupid law on the books was used. (jay walking, speeding, crossing a lane without signalling etc etc)

You can watch every ruck, lineout or scrum with slow motion video and find "issues" on both attack or defense

How many cleanouts are actually bound? etc etc

You sound like a menace to society

 

[Brumby Runner]

Agree 100% Braveheart. If anything, I think we've too often, sometimes through lack of alternatives, bought players through too quickly and not made them work hard enough. There is nothing wrong with giving them exposure to the squad and, if their form warrants it even picking them for a test or two. But we also shouldn't be afraid to leave them in super rugby or even club land a bit longer, or even send them back there after getting a taste of test rugby with a clear understanding of what they had to work on.

What should Cheika do if the best players on form are all young and new to Super Rugby, eg, Powell, Gordon, Louwrens (until he was injured) and Tuttle are the form No 9s in Aus this year. In the event Genia isn't available, should he ignore them and stick with Phipps and Frisby as next best? I, for one, would hope not.

 

[Braveheart81]

What should Cheika do if the best players on form are all young and new to Super Rugby, eg, Powell, Gordon, Louwrens (until he was injured) and Tuttle are the form No 9s in Aus this year. In the event Genia isn't available, should he ignore them and stick with Phipps and Frisby as next best? I, for one, would hope not.

Of course he should select them.

This discussion started from the suggestion that perhaps Hunt should be overlooked for a younger player because he might only have a couple of good seasons left in him.

If you're good enough, you're old enough.

If there's someone older who is better then you aren't good enough yet.

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