Refereeing decisions

[The_Brown_Hornet]

As I said in the match thread, call Hodge out, suspend him, but then be consistent across all games if they're fair dinkum about protecting the head (I'm looking at you Owen Farrell).

 

[cyclopath]

No arms at all. I don't know how to attach the pics but the stills from behind show Hodge's arm doesn't even get close to wrapping. His arm from his shoulder to his elbow, stays tucked in to his body. Even your stills show this. The only difference between what he did and the 'sling' position is that his forearm and hand are pointed towards Yato - they do not wrap at all as again your stills show - rather than across the front of his own body.

They also show the forward movement of the shoulder where he dips it - probably to brace for the impact.

He attempted to make a dominant tackle, (Yato is close to the line and Hodge is not passive or "pulling out" of contact), he had high speed in the tackle and the only reason he doesn't complete the tackle is because Yato is too strong for him. But there is no way there would have been an immediate release or withdraw.

I don't think there is any intent to shoulder charge Yato but Hodge had already been steam rolled at least once and with the pace Yato was coming at, with the line so close, Hodge's technique went out the window and he was just trying to do SOMETHING to stop a try. But it was dangerous and led to the concussion of another player which has robbed Fiji of his services for the 50-60mins left in that game as well as their next one.

If you don't want to take head contact seriously then that's your right but the game has moved the other way. "Attempting a proper tackle" as Turinui puts it is just not good enough when the attempt leaves the ball carrier concussed.

Not sure that continually referencing that the player was concussed is relevant. It isn’t a specific part of the tribunal process, I believe. And, as someone posted earlier, concussion can occur as a result of many factors, including a rapid deceleration. They should deliberate on the evidence they have on the process of the contact, as per the framework. Which they will. Sooner the better, and everyone can move on.

 

[Bullrush]

As I said in the match thread, call Hodge out, suspend him, but then be consistent across all games if they're fair dinkum about protecting the head (I'm looking at you Owen Farrell).

Exactly. Personally, it's why I wasn't really upset about Barrett's card. I don't think it was a thug move or that he intended to shoulder charge Hooper's head but in the end, he hit the head and there is little leeway for it.

Farrell

 

[Dan54]

Comparisons between Barrett and Farrell and Hodge are senseless and achieve little, but while we're doing it I'll just point out that Barrett charged his shoulder into the unprotected stationary head of an opponent; Hodge executed a live tackle poorly.

Or alternately we could use the real difference, Barrett was in a Black jersey, and Hodge was in a Yellow one! Look I don't want Hodge to be suspended, I thought it was a clumsy attempt at a tackle by a player who was not set for reasons of maybe self preservation, or just a little late to get set, but don't even start to kid yourselves fellas, if that had been an AB on a Wallaby I can almost guarantee we would be reading he should be strung up! That's ok, that's what happens on forums . I am sure the that all angles will be looked at properly, and all due consideration will be taken before any decision is taken, don't forget Hodge will have a lawyer and experts arguing his case.

 

[tragic]

Hearing 3pm wed Japan time.
Hopefully common sense will prevail.
Interesting Jonny Wilkinson and Clive Woodward have both come to similar conclusions as Tuirinui
Hard to say it’s a clear and obvious red when there is so much conjecture.
I worry about the implications for the rest of the World Cup if it’s upheld.

 

[tragic]

Or alternately we could use the real difference, Barrett was in a Black jersey, and Hodge was in a Yellow one! Look I don't want Hodge to be suspended, I thought it was a clumsy attempt at a tackle by a player who was not set for reasons of maybe self preservation, or just a little late to get set, but don't even start to kid yourselves fellas, if that had been an AB on a Wallaby I can almost guarantee we would be reading he should be strung up! That's ok, that's what happens on forums . I am sure the that all angles will be looked at properly, and all due consideration will be taken before any decision is taken, don't forget Hodge will have a lawyer and experts arguing his case.

I think if you lead with your chest and chin into contact you’re risking head injury.
It’s a classic PI method - half wrong foot the cover defence but instead of going right inside them to their inside shoulder try and steamroll them with front on body contact. Often very effective but leaves the head exposed.
The tackle on vunipola which is being billed as the tackle of the tournament so far was very similar although a bit lower - but still resulted in chin contact and was not far from the same outcome.

 

[Bullrush]

Hearing 3pm wed Japan time.
Hopefully common sense will prevail.
Interesting Jonny Wilkinson and Clive Woodward have both come to similar conclusions as Tuirinui
Hard to say it’s a clear and obvious red when there is so much conjecture.
I worry about the implications for the rest of the World Cup if it’s upheld.

No one was worrying about the implications when it was Polynesian players and teams getting penalised/carded/suspended for tackles less dangerous than this.

 

[molman]

No one was worrying about the implications when it was Polynesian players and teams getting penalised/carded/suspended for tackles less dangerous than this.

I'd really like to ask you if you have some facts to back up this narrative of injustice?... but then that should probably be discussed in a new thread.

I will say that I think people always worry about the implications of when and how the laws of the game are applied (the point of this whole thread). Especially when applied in some cases and not others and the implications they may have on the game when one situation is extrapolated to others as precedence’s are set. I'd like to think this concern extends to all decisions irrespective of the cultural background of the player or team involved, but perhaps you have a body of evidence that says otherwise.

 

[Forcefield]

No one was worrying about the implications when it was Polynesian players and teams getting penalised/carded/suspended for tackles less dangerous than this.

Personally, I only comment on the games I see. Any examples you'd care to name? I never had a problem with Sekope Kepu's red card (which had nothing to do with his ethnicity either for that matter) against Scotland a few years back. I think it was absolutely on the money and it is clear play is reckless rather than careless. I'd like to see the highlights of the Samoa v Russia game to see if those two yellow cards are in the ball park of Hodge or not.

 

[Bullrush]

Personally, I only comment on the games I see. Any examples you'd care to name? I never had a problem with Sekope Kepu's red card (which had nothing to do with his ethnicity either for that matter) against Scotland a few years back. I think it was absolutely on the money and it is clear play is reckless rather than careless. I'd like to see the highlights of the Samoa v Russia game to see if those two yellow cards are in the ball park of Hodge or not.

This is apparently a red card but a shoulder to the head, leading to a concussion, isn't even a penalty

 

[Dctarget]

No one was worrying about the implications when it was Polynesian players and teams getting penalised/carded/suspended for tackles less dangerous than this.

Your narrative falls apart pretty quick when Samoa just flukily avoided two red cards in the game against Russia.

 

[cyclopath]

I think the "points" have been made now. Even 8 year old ones.
Maybe everyone move along, it's getting tedious.
The process will play out.

 

[Bullrush]

Your narrative falls apart pretty quick when Samoa just flukily avoided two red cards in the game against Russia.

Quite the opposite. I just watched the first tackle, the yellow card, and the ref starts calling for a red card almost straight away.

Hodge's shoulder charge didn't even get looked at on the field the same way. No stoppage of game to watch video etc. Not reviewed by the on-field ref even once.

 

[cyclopath]

Give it a rest. Please. You have made your point. Relentlessly.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

"World Rugby has taken the unusual step of publicly criticising the performance of its officials after the first round of World Cup pool matches in Japan."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12270657

 

[Derpus]

Was just about to link that. Gus Gardner's performance in the Arg / France game is said to have triggered it.

 

[Tex]

FWIW I thought yellow cards were the appropriate sanction for last night's tackles. You could argue perhaps that the second hit from Matu'u was a darker shade of orange.

Both hits were pretty aggressive.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think both should have been red cards. The framework suggests that for it to be a mitigating factor, the "ball carrier suddenly drops in height (e.g. from earlier tackle, trips/falls, dives to score)" and it "must be clear and obvious and can only be applied to reduce a sanction by 1 level".

I don't think either situation saw the ball carrier dropping their body height enough to be a mitigating factor. These were both tackles where the hit was too high and would have probably collected the ball carrier on the chin even if they hadn't lowered their body height whatsoever.

Motu'u's in particular was completely reckless.

Unless World Rugby charges both players with red card offences and makes them front the judiciary I think this will be used by Australia to help argue their case that Reece Hodge's tackle should have only been a yellow card.

 

[Tex]

If the Samoa cards are the standard then Hodge will definitely be a yellow. If Hodge is upgraded to a red and the two Samoan cards remain unchallenged, the system is a farce.

 

[Strewthcobber]

If neither of those two are red cards, we may as well get rid of the sanction altogether.

If it's not there to protect people getting smashed directly in the head from a full force tackle, what is the red card there for?