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Referendum

Discussion in 'Politics' started by boyo, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Amend the Constitution.

    You want something to represent modern Australia?

    How is a document drafted at the start of the 20th Century when it was a 3 day steam ship ride between Brissie and Sydney relevant to a 21st century digital economy where people fly from Sydney to Melbourne and back again for a 2 hour meeting, or they just jump on skype.
  2. Runner Nev Cottrell (35)

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    Try that line with the US folk or the French
  3. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Are they the shining examples of good efficient socially responsible governments that we should model ourselves on?
  4. Runner Nev Cottrell (35)

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    No there are not shining lights. Read the Russian constituion as it has some of the best freedoms and high minded lanuage of any. Yet look at the reality.

    It was hard enough to get the very few referendums up in Australia, 8 I think , with very few in recent times.
  5. suckerforred Chilla Wilson (44)

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    Just one question - Why change?

    Can someone please give me an answer that does not require me to find a dictionary or question my own views of our country?
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  6. Bullrush Jim Lenehan (48)

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    If you're not prepared to question your own view of the country then there's not much to be said is there?
  7. suckerforred Chilla Wilson (44)

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    I suppose what I am trying to say Bullrush is that I have not yet seen an arguement that would make me vote 'Yes' in a referendum on the matter.

    I am not a monachist. But neither am I republician. I would just like to make an informed decision on something that will cost the country a shit load of money.

    We are an inderpendant country. We govern ourselves. What benefit is going to come from being a 'republic'?

    There are a lot of other things that I would like to see changed before we worry about who is or is not the figure head of our country.
  8. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    We spend $10-15m a year of taxpayer money on the Office of the Governor-General.

    I think the attitude that you'd vote no on a referendum to become a replublic because you think there are other issues that should be dealt with first is pretty much a rational that would see every referendum ever fail.

    What if we had a referendum on the national anthem or the flag and people voted no because they thought becoming a republic was a more important issue and wanted that dealt with first?

    I think you are right that becoming a replublic wouldn't result in massive changes in Australia. I guess the question is do we want to remain a constitutional monarchy and have the King or Queen of England as our head of state forever? If not, why would waiting into the distant future to change be any better than doing it soon.

    My guess is that the issue will become prominent again when QE2 dies and Prince Charles becomes our King. I think there'll be much greater push for becoming a republic at that point.
  9. Sully John Eales (66)

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    I think we would spend just as much on the Presidents office as the governor generals.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
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  10. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    I'm sure this will be true.

    We also spend many millions of dollars each time there is a royal visit to Australia.

    Anyway, I don't think the costs are really important to the issue. The question is why should we be a constitutional monarchy with the King or Queen of England as our head of state, and if not, what's the point of waiting to make that change.
  11. Sully John Eales (66)

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    Or is the Queen nothing but a figure head and we are an independent country now.

    If you don't want to include the cost in the discussion don't bring then into the discussion.

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  12. Rob42 Ron Walden (29)

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    I've never bought this argument. The transition to Charles will be all the pomp and ceremony associated with royal weddings, to the max. Lots of excited discussion about new eras and so on. The royal family has the best PR operation in the world, they won't let an op like that pass them by. I don't think it will make Australians feel more republican - quite the opposite.

    If there was ever a time for Australians to vote republican because they didn't like the royal family, it would gave been in 1999, after a decade of royal scandals, Diana's death poorly handled, etc. I think Australians like the system more than the people. And I don't think most republicans get that.
  13. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    I too don't know if it will work or if the sentiment will be similar to what the Republican Movement thinks or hopes, but I do think they will use it as the catalyst for their next campaign.
  14. Rob42 Ron Walden (29)

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    It's an excuse for them to do nothing worthwhile now , I guess. Which is perhaps more productive than their 1999 campaign was.
  15. suckerforred Chilla Wilson (44)

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    So why do people think that the previous campaign failed?
  16. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    From the way Howard had the question worded (he wanted it to fail).

    The question was: A proposed law: To alter the Constitution to establish the Commonwealth of Australia as a republic with the Queen and Governor-General being replaced by a President appointed by a two-thirds majority of the members of the Commonwealth Parliament.

    The suggestion that the President be appointed by Parliament rather than directly elected by the public caused a rift within pro republican voters (which was substantially more than 50% of the population according to opinion polls prior to the referendum).

    It was comfortably defeated.
  17. fatprop David Wilson (68)

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    Our dear politicians picked a model that ensured they maintained control over the system by ensuring they those the President. We wants to vote for the guy directly, but that would deliver power

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  18. suckerforred Chilla Wilson (44)

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    So, if we want to vote for our President/Governor-General, will/should they have different 'powers' then what the Governor-General currently has?

    What is going to happen to the state's Governors? DO we get to vote for them as well or are they abolished?

    Our constitution is an interesting beast. It is structured such that the states do not/have not lost powers from the days that they were colonies. That is why we are referred to as the Commonwealth of Australia that was formed with the Federation of the States. Any move to be a republic is going to have to include significant changes to how Australia, as a whole, is governed. This can not be distilled down to one sentence on a ballot paper.

    IMHO, this is the main reason that a republic vote has and will continue to fail. This is also what I menat by there being other issues (I was meaning governence) that are far more important and need to be dealt with first.

    Note: I actually knew the answer to the last question re the wording of the question. I am just interested in the nitty gritty as to why people so badly want a republic but the only chance we have had failed.
  19. Rob42 Ron Walden (29)

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    How many more bases of power do we need? Three levels of government not enough?

    Think of the best GG or state governors. How many of them would have put themselves up for election as President?
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  20. Bruwheresmycar Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    That's a good way to look at it actually.

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