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Referendum

Discussion in 'Politics' started by boyo, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. fatprop David Wilson (68)

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    It is a philosophical position to me. I would prefer to have some direct input via the democratic process into who leads me and this country than have it chosen for me.

    And the best GGs or state governors do nothing of value, they may be wonderful and worthy people, but just what have they done while being GG or state governor?

    The Irish seem to have survived and their best President, Mary Robinson, was just fantastic
  2. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

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    So if we do go for a new flag design, should this form part of the design?

    [IMG]

    We seemed happy enough to have the Union Jack as part of our flag for the last little bit.

    @RugbyFuture are you there? How about some of your special talents producing some prototype designs?
  3. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

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    It failed because Howard hijacked the process,so that many people who were supportive of a Republic still voted no,as they didn't like the only version that Howard was offering.
  4. Rob42 Ron Walden (29)

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    Ahhh, the good old days, when Howard was to blame for everything. The referendum proposed the parliamentary appointment model because that's what the convention prior to it agreed to. But I guess Howard rigged that too. The direct-election republicans were foolish to vote with the monarchists - the step to a republic was the big step, it would have been much easier then to change to a direct election model down the track.
  5. RugbyFuture Lord Logo

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    Harold Thomas the creator of the aboriginal flag (and crazily restrictive copyright holder) has always said that the aboriginal flag is meant to be a flag in itself and nothing else, representing the aboriginal people and them alone and should never make up part of another flag.

    If you're talking about flags the biggest problem in australia is there is no true standout for what should be our flag, unlike canada where the maple leaf was always a prominent symbol and New zealand now where the silver fern is obviously the standout.

    I designed this a few years ago to counter the vexillological (flag design rules) horrors that have been suggested with a decent design.

    [IMG]

    note: I'm not an advocate for a republic, though do advocate unique australian symbology expressing our own dominion rather than that of britains.
  6. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

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    The whole purpose of the convention before the referendum was to split the Republican vote.
    It didn't matter to Howard which model the convention came up with,as any scenario would alienate some passionate Republican supporters.
    So yeah,he rigged that too.
  7. suckerforred Chilla Wilson (44)

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    But the problem is that to go to a referendum there has to be a clear & concise direction to question with regards to what the change is going to be. Due to the nature of our constitution and the requirements for it to be changed we can't have a 'Do you want to be a republic?' vote and then sort the details out later.

    There is always going to be arguements over the model so until there is a model that the majority of people can live with it is going to fail.

    Does it shit you then that we can not vote directlt for our prime minister?

    Serious question because it anoys me. I might think that our local Party A member is going to be the best person for my electorate but I don't want their dickhead leader anywhere near the top job. Makes voting difficult somethimes...


    There are rules for flag designing?
  8. Rob42 Ron Walden (29)

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    But the republican vote was going to get split at some stage - one model was going to have to be selected and one rejected.
  9. fatprop David Wilson (68)

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    [IMG]

    This is the flag option I have always liked
  10. fatprop David Wilson (68)

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    Shit me? no, it has it's benefits, as the PM needs to hold power in the reps. Obama is likely to be running a government after the mid terms with no majority in either house

    But more direct consultation by the local member would be nice, consultation that would bind him to the electorates position on an issue and not the parties.
  11. boyo Mark Ella (57)

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    This.

    Adherence to the party line on most issues makes the local member a robot.
    suckerforred likes this.
  12. Sully John Eales (66)

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    I have always believed Howard set up the Republic referendum to fail.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
    Ruggo and fatprop like this.
  13. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

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    No.
    Howard could have had the referendum on the Republic,with a supplementary question on which model was preferred.
    But he knew,phrased like that,it would get up.
    Divide and rule,it's an oldie but a Goldie.
    Works every time.
  14. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Seemingly, and I reckon that the Tin Foil Hat brigade will believe that there is Little Johnny Howard's DNA all over those rules as well.
    suckerforred likes this.
  15. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

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    I think the Kiwis Mixed Member Proportional system was designed to counter that.

    As I understand it they get two votes on election day.
    one vote is for their local member, one vote is for the party they want to govern.

    Half the members of the house are elected as "local members" - presumably so they will represent their constituency and not just be Party robots.
    The other half are appointed by the faceless backroom party hacks.

    Good in theory, but I think the "local members" in NZ just vote on party lines anyway, so it kind of defeats the purpose of the two votes theory.

    Any NZ readers care to comment. Does it work, or is it another example of perfect theory flawed in application?
  16. suckerforred Chilla Wilson (44)

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    Tasmainia apparently has a pretty unique (for Australia) system as well.

    This is also, IMO, one of the problems with trying to get the republic vote up. There are actually 9 different sets of electroal rules and governance structures in Australia. That is without counting the local government level. It is really no wonder that there can't be any agreement.
  17. Rob42 Ron Walden (29)

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    Well, the direct election supporters showed that they preferred the status quo over the parliamentary appointment republic, so I don't know if your proposal would have worked either - direct electionists could still have lost out.
  18. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

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    suckerforred likes this.
  19. Blue Andrew Slack (58)

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    And a fucking miracle we're not bankrupt.
  20. suckerforred Chilla Wilson (44)

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    Morally at least... Oh wait...

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