Rugby 7s general chat

[wamberal]

For kicks, our best 7s side if we could select anyone:

Hooper, Genia, Beale, O'Connor, Folau, Ioane, Gill

Fairy floss team, the Keewees would murder them in the tight.


I would pick Higginbum, Hooper, Pocock up front. Quirk and maybe Gill on the bench.


Throw in a few steppers and dancers with a bit of speed, and they would go okay.

 

[Jets]

The ARU need to get serious and do the same thing. We need to have career 7's players who can pocket $100K+ per year. This way the players will forgo a Super contract to play at the Olympics. Unless things change we will just be making up the numbers, if we are lucky enough to make it.

 

[Jets]

Davies, Kingi, Gill, Hooper, Speight, Schatz, White, Coleman and Mogg. Cooper could be an option now that he's started to tackle.

 

[Braveheart81]

The big advantage New Zealand have is their third tier and the fact that their 7s players can play in the ITM Cup.

I really don't see Australia having dedicated 7s players of any great standard in the next couple of years. I really think that we have to stack our team with Wallabies over the course of the Rio 2016 qualifying (maybe cycle players in and out for a couple of tournaments each) and then stack our side with all our best players for the Olympics.

I think this will give us a much better team for this tournament than putting a few decent players into the 7s side for a whole season to qualify and then play Olympics. Playing for the Wallabies and at the Olympics shouldn't be mutually exclusive. If we make it so players have to be involved for an entire year, it will become that way.

 

[qwerty51]

Fairy floss team, the Keewees would murder them in the tight.


I would pick Higginbum, Hooper, Pocock up front. Quirk and maybe Gill on the bench.


Throw in a few steppers and dancers with a bit of speed, and they would go okay.

There's no way Higginbotham is fast or fit enough for 7s. Too big. Gill and Hooper is adequate breakdown cover if they stay on different ends of the park. Folau can be pretty physical at the ruck.

Go look at the NZ's best forward, it's DJ Forbes and he's totally ineffective in the 15 man game at 7. Only opensides in 15s are fit and fast enough for 7s.

 

[SevensPhD]

Higgers played 7s in 07/08 and was a beast. He makes my dream team. He can get 7s fit again if allowed the opportunity.

Higgers, Pocock, Gill upfront
Genia, JOC (James O'Connor), Folau, Ioane in the backs (scrum to wing)

Speight, Cooper, Foley, Hooper, Mogg on the bench

Although, how many of those have Australia citizenship to qualify for the Olympics? Cannot be just permanent residents...

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Why can't we? Because the ARU are crying Pooor - and do not put the effort or the resources into it that it needs... Given our playing numbers, Australia will always need to be better resourced, better organised, and just smarter, than NZ or SA in order to even remain level with them... I don't think Kenya 7s team is a joke at all - I think it is a team which takes themselves and their opportuinities very seriously - perhaps more seriously than we do.

To be completely honest tho' I think the current 7s playing strip gives a clear insight into the contempt with which the ARU actually regards this team...

I believe that under O'Neil, if he could have found a convincing reason to stop spending any money at all on 7S, He would have tried it.

Additionally - you mention Higgers in 2007/8... that is an important point... MOST (not all) players only really have about 3-4 seasons in them at the top level, as it is so quick, and the fitness levels so demanding... Of course, getting through a tournament, is not the same as WINNING A tournament... There are players who have had longer 7s careers, but i would argue they played in very strong squads, and were athletes of a relatively specific type. I think Higginbotham - who is the 2nd player I would pick for the Wallabies behind Genia, would find that 4 years is an incredibly long time in 7s...

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Higgers played 7s in 07/08 and was a beast. He makes my dream team. He can get 7s fit again if allowed the opportunity.

Higgers, Pocock, Gill upfront
Genia, JOC (James O'Connor), Folau, Ioane in the backs (scrum to wing)

Speight, Cooper, Foley, Hooper, Mogg on the bench

Although, how many of those have Australia citizenship to qualify for the Olympics? Cannot be just permanent residents.

I don't think there are that many Wallabies who would really make a successful transition - its a very different game, increasingly for specialists... Folau would be a real option - and I suspect that is forming part of his current Contract Negotiations (how it can be handled) Speight would have to be considered...

Pocock and Hooper would rate consideration in just about any team, I would not be surprised at Mogg being given a chance...

I frame those comments by acknowledging that our current 7S team is only... 'okay' - and when I say most of the Wallabies would not worry the 7s game, I am speaking in reference to the level of NZ, SA, Fiji and English teams...

Shipperly and Kingi come from 7S - but I don't advocate an encore for them, necessarily...

My real concern is that the ARU, in May 2013, have STILL not told the Public - or the S15 Clubs - how they plan to handle a S15 Player who wants to make a try for selection in the Olympics... It really is once in a lifetime chance - as many of these players will struggleto be compettive 7 years from now.

Its a poor showing really.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Rich get richer.NZ to offer up to $120,000 for sevens specialists: http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-sevens/nz-team-cash-in-ahead-rio-5437902

Goes to what I have been saying... What is the ARU offering" $12,000?

I have no doubt that various bods from the ARU prowl these pages - why dont the ***tards speak up! Not here - through putting forward a coherent plan in the Public Arena. Pulver has had enough time to put something into shape.

 

[southsider]

Why can't we? Because the ARU are crying Pooor - and do not put the effort or the resources into it that it needs. Given our playing numbers, Australia will always need to be better resourced, better organised, and just smarter, than NZ or SA in order to even remain level with them. I don't think Kenya 7s team is a joke at all - I think it is a team which takes themselves and their opportuinities very seriously - perhaps more seriously than we do.

To be completely honest tho' I think the current 7s playing strip gives a clear insight into the contempt with which the ARU actually regards this team.

I believe that under O'Neil, if he could have found a convincing reason to stop spending any money at all on 7S, He would have tried it.

Additionally - you mention Higgers in 2007/8. that is an important point. MOST (not all) players only really have about 3-4 seasons in them at the top level, as it is so quick, and the fitness levels so demanding. Of course, getting through a tournament, is not the same as WINNING A tournament. There are players who have had longer 7s careers, but i would argue they played in very strong squads, and were athletes of a relatively specific type. I think Higginbotham - who is the 2nd player I would pick for the Wallabies behind Genia, would find that 4 years is an incredibly long time in 7s.

didnt say kenya was a joke, i said the fact that kenya are better than us is a joke, with our playing numbers, resources, our general standard of rugby etc we should be ahead of a 2nd/3rd world country

 

[Rassie]

I don't know what the Olympics climate is like in Australia but it's pretty much the most prestigious honor and American athlete can earn.

Kenya is successful because they are really fucking good and believe in the cause. Seriously they've been outplaying teams for years now and their facilities are absolutely shit. From what I can gather there really is no drive for the Thunderbolt players to go out there and give it their all, or treat it much differently than they would any high-profile 7s match.

Take some guys born in high altitude who had to run long distances to get to schools or to travel to certain villages from a young age which increase ones Neuromotor coordination and who's diet comes from a traditional maize dish called ugali and the traditional “energy drink” namely chai tea which ads up to his diet being 77% carbohydrate, put them in a gym and teach them a bit of rugby and its not going to be long and you will sit with athletes who can last longer than any opponents, as strong as them and have naturaly better coordination. Then get a coach from amajor playing rugby nation to teach them the tips and tricks and you sit with a deadly pack that can beat the worlds best on any given day.

In Africa facilities are a luxury and most parts people do not let it be a reason not to play a sport as they make a way. Grass do not survive in the winter in places like the highveldt so kids grow up playing on fields with dead grass on it. Normally the first teams play on the field with the thicker layer of grass where the B teams play on the grass, sand and thorn minefield called a rugby field cause it has two rugby posts, a couple of trees on both sides to see where is half way and the 22 normally as the markings on it fades within a day or 2. So you want to play on that better field you need to perform better and play better and earn your place.

That is why you will see the small towns normally produce these hard forwards which is normally picked up by the major schools

 

[wamberal]

There's no way Higginbotham is fast or fit enough for 7s. Too big. Gill and Hooper is adequate breakdown cover if they stay on different ends of the park. Folau can be pretty physical at the ruck.

Go look at the NZ's best forward, it's DJ Forbes and he's totally ineffective in the 15 man game at 7. Only opensides in 15s are fit and fast enough for 7s.

Really? You have a look at the English and Saffa teams, they both have some very big units in the forwards.


Do you honestly believe that Folau could play in the forwards in Sevens?


Higginbum is certainly quick enough to play a tight forward role in Sevens, I am not privy to his fitness stats, maybe you are? Would you care to share them with us, please. But if his fitness profile does not suit the game, I would have Mowen and Dennis, and maybe Luke Jones. We need to win scrums and lineouts, not to mention every single breakdown, if at all possible. That requires a degree of technical proficiency, as well as some size, height, and strength.


We will never produce specialists Sevens players like DJ Forbes or Tim Mikkelson, simply because we will never have the Sevens circuit that New Zealand has. So we need to take a similar approach to the English - a big and abrasive forward pack, and some flyers. Our superior ball-players would be icing on the cake, but the cake has to be there.

 

[Braveheart81]

We will never produce specialists Sevens players like DJ Forbes or Tim Mikkelson, simply because we will never have the Sevens circuit that New Zealand has. So we need to take a similar approach to the English - a big and abrasive forward pack, and some flyers. Our superior ball-players would be icing on the cake, but the cake has to be there.

As I said earlier, NZ has the big advantage that these guys can play 7s every year and then play ITM Cup and eke out a reasonable living as a professional rugby player.

Australian players don't have that same opportunity and either due to this or by design we treat our 7s team as a stepping stone to higher honours for young guys to play for a season or two and then hopefully move on to Super Rugby if they're good enough.

Over time you'd imagine that this will change and we'll start focusing more heavily on 7s now that it is an Olympic sport. It's hard to see us having time to do much apart from stacking our team with Wallabies for the 2016 Olympics though.

 

[USARugger]

wamberal

Mate, Mowen and Dennis would get exposed so badly for pace it isn't even funny. I could expose Mowen or Dennis for pace. Seriously we're talking about two guys who hurt for some pace in 15s from time to time. Those English forwards may be big but they are also faster than Mowen or Dennis will ever be. There is no room (well actually, there is far too much room) on a 7s pitch for slow players.

It's already been said in this thread but Higgers played 7s before and he was pretty fuckin' good at it.

 

[Jets]

If the ARU are going to take money for the Aust Olympic Committee and Fed Government now that 7's is an Olympic sport surely they should spend it on the 7's team.

I actually think they should implement a national program for women first and then take a few years to adapt the men's program. We are much more likely to win a women's gold than a men's one in the next 2 Olympics in my view.

 

[USARugger]

Jets

With the financial situation the ARU are currently in any serious investment in the Women's game would be a poor decision and I don't think it's likely to happen right now.

Women's 7s has actually been growing a bit on it's own the past few years. On the other hand Women's 15s has all but gone extinct.

 

[Jets]

Jets

With the financial situation the ARU are currently in any serious investment in the Women's game would be a poor decision and I don't think it's likely to happen right now.

Women's 7s has actually been growing a bit on it's own the past few years. On the other hand Women's 15s has all but gone extinct.

I think investing in the Women's game would be the best decision. We are the current World Champs with less than 2000 players nationally. We can attract large numbers in coming years and if we were to win an Olympic medal it would be a great springboard for the growth of women's seven in Australia.

Olympic success results in dollars to the sport, both from government and corporate backers. By focusing on a Women's gold medal we can revolutionise the profile of the sport in Australia. We could attract sponsors and increase participation in a short period of time. Women's sevens is an exciting sport to watch and has the potential to attract public interest.

Men's and Women's Olympic gold medals are worth the same so I think it is wise to chase the one we are realistically a chance of winning.

 

[USARugger]

Women's 7s and 15s do not generate revenue and operate at a deficit in just about every union globally. They could win the Gold medal and they could make some nice commercials about it but it would do little to raise the profile of the Men's game and would do between little and nothing to put butts in seats at the Gold Coast 7s or at Super Rugby matches. From a financial perspective it would be the same as throwing that money in a pond.

But the ARU is fond of that so who knows.

 

[Jets]

I'm looking at the Women promoting themselves rather than Rugby as a whole. The way that Government funding is set up in Aust with Olympic sports is that if you win medals you get more money. That's the reason why money is being taken away from swimming (who underperformed in London) and given to sailing (who were great in London). The Government are trying to invest in sports we can win gold in. Womens rugby can do this, currently I can't see our men doing the same.

I am hopeful that the recent restructure of the ARU will allow for different areas of the game to be focused on separately. Sevens now has a GM for the sport. hopefully that results in more focused planning around 7's pathways and programs.

For a relatively small investment women's sevens could have great returns.

 

[qwerty51]

Really? You have a look at the English and Saffa teams, they both have some very big units in the forwards.

One player. Frankie Horne and James Rodwell. Hooper and Gill are the only forwards you need and yes Folau can be your other big unit.