Rugby 7s general chat

[USARugger]

Jets

Does the ARU divy up the money or does the AOC delineate it to the Men's and Women's programs separately? If they pay out for medals then it must be the second, right? IE. Women win medal, women get more money but not men and vice versa.

My post was my assuming it was the former. Even if it did grow the Women's game a lot the majority of the cash inflow to the ARU comes from television/sponsorship deals/getting asses in seats and the profile of the Women's game is incredibly small compared to the Men's. If the ARU is in charge of splitting the cash I can't really see them investing heavily in the Women because even if they win a gold medal the commercial profile for Women's rugby is tiny. They are in a position were they currently must maximize the return on every dollar they spend.

The only way I can see serious investment in the Women's game is if the ARU thinks they can milk some huge sum from the AOC over on gold medal.

Do the Aussie Women's 7s even have a shot at the gold - realistically? I have no idea where they stand globally.

 

[Jets]

I'm not saying they should throw a heap of money at the Women. I just think that Olympic funding should go towards them. Currently the women's team have limited funding. If the ARU invest a little more they could get some really good returns.

The women are the current 7's World Champs. We are ranks 3rd on the IRB World series standings behind NZ and England. We are a realistic chance of a medal and a chance of winning gold.

 

[USARugger]

I'm not saying they should throw a heap of money at the Women. I just think that Olympic funding should go towards them. Currently the women's team have limited funding. If the ARU invest a little more they could get some really good returns.

The women are the current 7's World Champs. We are ranks 3rd on the IRB World series standings behind NZ and England. We are a realistic chance of a medal and a chance of winning gold.

I'd be surprised if the AOC didn't have a stipulation attached to the money that forces even distribution of funds in situations like Men's/Women's 7s. Sort of like Title IX and the NCAA but with cash.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'm not saying they should throw a heap of money at the Women. I just think that Olympic funding should go towards them. Currently the women's team have limited funding. If the ARU invest a little more they could get some really good returns.

The women are the current 7's World Champs. We are ranks 3rd on the IRB World series standings behind NZ and England. We are a realistic chance of a medal and a chance of winning gold.

Going off results I'd say that the Women deserve at least as much as the Men's team. Third it this year's series and defending Sevens World Champions.

 

[Braveheart81]

The reality is that money into Women's 7s is going to go a lot further at this stage than it is for the men.

The women will be amateur players who will either get paid a miniscule amount of won't get paid at all.

The men will be professional rugby players and that is why at this point it is unrealistic to think we will have top class professional 7s players in place before the 2016 Olympics. Our best pro players are all playing Super Rugby and for the Wallabies. These are the guys we need involved if we want to have a shot in Rio in 2016 (and to ensure we qualify).

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The reality is that money into Women's 7s is going to go a lot further at this stage than it is for the men.

The women will be amateur players who will either get paid a miniscule amount of won't get paid at all.

The men will be professional rugby players and that is why at this point it is unrealistic to think we will have top class professional 7s players in place before the 2016 Olympics. Our best pro players are all playing Super Rugby and for the Wallabies. These are the guys we need involved if we want to have a shot in Rio in 2016 (and to ensure we qualify).

See I think that is massively unfair to the Women's team. They deserve to be treated in the same light as the Men's in terms of contracting. Look to what the US has done with residency and such. Use this and next year to identify the best possible team and then contract them for 2016 based out of the AIS. Access to full time training and professionalism.

 

[Braveheart81]

See I think that is massively unfair to the Women's team. They deserve to be treated in the same light as the Men's in terms of contracting. Look to what the US has done with residency and such. Use this and next year to identify the best possible team and then contract them for 2016 based out of the AIS. Access to full time training and professionalism.

I think it is largely a fact of life though. Our women cricketers, rugby players, soccer players etc. are a long way from being paid anything close to the men. There just isn't the money in women's team sport at this stage.

Places at the AIS are certainly viable but could also impact on who would potentially want to play. My guess is that you identify your potential squad, have training several times a week in Sydney and Brisbane (this is presumably where the players will come from) and then have some residential camps at the AIS.

Not everyone who can and should be involved will want to uproot their life and go and live at the AIS for a year.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

We are almost out of time, already - Sadly, we are NO chance of a Gold Medal, and little chance of medalling at all, if one is realistic.

Meanwhile, the ARU flounders in a Sponsor-less desert, and basically cannot really find the dollars any longer to run the game at it's current level. There is no money for the 7s campaign and I can only imagine the NZRU has enough to hand out $120,000 dollar 7S contracts on the back of it's World Cup - did they ever announce how much money they made/lost on the RWC?

If the ARU has lost 19million in two years, the NZRU cannot be far behind? - but a 2016 Gold Medal costed at 5-6 million would be considered a fair deal in NZ.

O'Neil's idea of an ANZAC-LIONS Fixture at the end of the 2015 World Cup is a simple, and solid initiative to find some dollars for the ARU where no dollars currently exist... The only change I would make is for it to be played One week in London, and the next week in Sydney at the Stadium Australia - but there is no way they will achieve this at the end of a World Cup Campaign - the players will be looking for a Holiday.

 

[Omar Comin']

We are almost out of time, already - Sadly, we are NO chance of a Gold Medal, and little chance of medalling at all, if one is realistic.

That's pretty pessimistic. I'd say almost every team that makes it to the Olympic competition will have a chance of a medal. 7's is a bit like soccer or baseball, where inferior teams can win one off games reasonably regularly. Take the last 7's world cup as an example...with Wales beating Argentina in the final.

Right now there's probably only a handful of teams that can beat NZ in a one off game...but there's another 10 teams that can beat those sides!

 

[Braveheart81]

The reality of 7s at the Olympics is that the top rugby nations are going to trot out teams that are dramatically better than their regular 7s team.

Teams that are strong at 7s but not 15 man rugby (such as Kenya, Fiji etc.) are not going to be able to improve their sides by nearly as much as Australia, NZ, South Africa and GB are.

New Zealand and South Africa probably have less improvement to gain because they already have some seasoned 7s professionals (like DJ Forbes and Cecil Afrika).

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

That's pretty pessimistic. I'd say almost every team that makes it to the Olympic competition will have a chance of a medal. 7's is a bit like soccer or baseball, where inferior teams can win one off games reasonably regularly. Take the last 7's world cup as an example.with Wales beating Argentina in the final.

Right now there's probably only a handful of teams that can beat NZ in a one off game.but there's another 10 teams that can beat those sides!

I am not a pessimist - but I can assure you that NZ are not basing their World Cup / Comm Games / Olympic Games programme on the assumption that 'miracles can happen'... Our ranking in the last IRB 7s places us pretty accurately in terms of where we stand

 

[SevensPhD]

I'd be surprised if the AOC didn't have a stipulation attached to the money that forces even distribution of funds in situations like Men's/Women's 7s. Sort of like Title IX and the NCAA but with cash.

This is exactly correct. The AIS provided $355,000 last year to the ARU stipulating it must ALL go towards women. The amount has increased this year to $1.04M, and the AIS has yet to dictate how that money gets split, but it is assumed a higher percentage will go to the women based on the fact they hold the current Women's World Cup Sevens title and have been more successful than the men on the Series. I am sure gender equality also has significance, seeing how ARU's normal budget heavily favors men.

ARU also gets a one-off $500K this year to establish a training hub for both teams- undecided/unrevealed location- but my money is at Bond Uni on the Gold Coast.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

This is exactly correct. The AIS provided $355,000 last year to the ARU stipulating it must ALL go towards women. The amount has increased this year to $1.04M, and the AIS has yet to dictate how that money gets split, but it is assumed a higher percentage will go to the women based on the fact they hold the current Women's World Cup Sevens title and have been more successful than the men on the Series. I am sure gender equality also has significance, seeing how ARU's normal budget heavily favors men.

ARU also gets a one-off $500K this year to establish a training hub for both teams- undecided/unrevealed location- but my money is at Bond Uni on the Gold Coast.

in an only tenuously comnnected - but extremely important point, is the Lovely Cheryl Soon(?) going to be returning for Moscow? This would be enough to make me want to watch women's rugby.

 

[SevensPhD]

The reality of 7s at the Olympics is that the top rugby nations are going to trot out teams that are dramatically better than their regular 7s team.

Teams that are strong at 7s but not 15 man rugby (such as Kenya, Fiji etc.) are not going to be able to improve their sides by nearly as much as Australia, NZ, South Africa and GB are.

New Zealand and South Africa probably have less improvement to gain because they already have some seasoned 7s professionals (like DJ Forbes and Cecil Afrika).

Maybe this will be the reality, but according to Tietjins (NZ) and the ARU, there will be no "parachuting" in of 15s stars unless they drop Super Rugby for a season. Whether or not they succumb to pressure in 2016 is another story. On the other hand, South Africa have a policy that ANY player is open for selection for the Olympic team.

Time will tell if the sevens specialists end up being better at sevens than the 15s blokes....

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Do you get the impression the ARU has little invested in obtaining the best result from Rio? I do... I think they are of the opinion that as long as they get a team to Rio airport, that will be good enough... I sympathise with Micheal O'Connor, who seems to be doing his best despite the ARU.

As to the NZRU, I interpret that statement as meaning that AB's WILL be playing in the 7s.

 

[SevensPhD]

Do you get the impression the ARU has little invested in obtaining the best result from Rio? I do. I think they are of the opinion that as long as they get a team to Rio airport, that will be good enough. I sympathise with Micheal O'Connor, who seems to be doing his best despite the ARU.

As to the NZRU, I interpret that statement as meaning that AB's WILL be playing in the 7s.

I think this is a carryover effect from JON's utter displeasure with anything 7s. Pulver sees it as a huge opportunity, and has restructured the ARU with a new 7s department. Its only been 4 months, and Pulver has a 3rd tier agenda among other things, however, expect big things/changes to the 7s programmes under Pulver. The changes will be slower than warranted due to the anti-7s inertia carried over from JON.

2016 medal is realistic for women.
2016 medal is attainable for men, but most likely 2020....that said, big Olympic budgets in other countries will level the 7s playing field even more by 2020.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

I think this is a carryover effect from JON's utter displeasure with anything 7s. Pulver sees it as a huge opportunity, and has restructured the ARU with a new 7s department. Its only been 4 months, and Pulver has a 3rd tier agenda among other things, however, expect big things/changes to the 7s programmes under Pulver. The changes will be slower than warranted due to the anti-7s inertia carried over from JON.

2016 medal is realistic for women.
2016 medal is attainable for men, but most likely 2020..that said, big Olympic budgets in other countries will level the 7s playing field even more by 2020.

I would love you to be right - but if you are... Why is he already saying that if a S15 Player on 4, 5, 6 or $700,000 per year wants to have a go at the Olympics team then he has to stand down for a full season? Why is he not offering a pathway, why is he not at least saying "we will look at it, and see what can be achieved with the Clubs"?

If this year was 2016 for example, is there any conceivable reason why a specific player in the Rebels or the Force could not be moved to concentrate more on 7S in an Olympic Year - building on past involvement in 2015, and possibly even the year before? (It's not like he will be busy come September)...

But No - the ARU attitude is not "lets find a way for the 4 or 5 players likely to be seriously considered/affected" - It is; lets just force them to make a financial decision that makes no sense whatsoever... I would not expect this year's Brumbies (for example) to part with a player in order to allow him to play 7S - but the Rebels position is not the same as the Brumbies.

The ARU is really saying "we are just going to keep plodding along, picking our underperforming IRB 7s teams, and then look puzzled, and just a little surprised - when so many other teams perform better on the biggest world stage - and, we will keep our jobs at the same time". The attitude is just too conservative, and just plain 'average'.

 

[SevensPhD]

I know they are discussing pathways, I have heard some ideas personally from the ARU. They are strategising how the Super Rugby thing will work. But it does take time. I don't think there is much agreement on these things within the ARU, so it will take time to: A. figure out the best plan B. sell everyone on it.

Very few nations actually have a 7s pathway right now. In fact, USA and South Africa probably have the most formalised pathway, and USA's is not fully implemented yet. NZ is a different story all together.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Very few nations are realistically trying to Win the Gold Medal. We should be one of them, but we are not.

 

[SevensPhD]

Aussie women play live here: http://wsws.irb.com/liveblog/blogid=1827.html at 6pm AEST (12mins from this post).