Rugby 7s general chat

[TOCC]

But who are the best players in the country? Evidence suggests that in terms of 7s that doesn't necessarily mean it's the 15s guys. Also, as I suggest in my post above. The BBL operates with little to no involvement from the Test squad. Unless you're a Cricket fan to begin with you'll likely have very little idea who the marquee players are let alone the domesitc guys. Certainly hasn't hurt it.

It would be a fair assessment to say that a fair chunk of the best rugby players in this country are within the 33man Wallabies squad..

Ok i should have clarified, the best and highest profile players. BBL leverages marquee players extensively.. As unfortunate as it is, having Ed Jenkins in a team isn't going to get the turnstiles turning or tens of thousands tuning in.

If what you're talking about it a commercialised and self-funding tournament which will get people tuning in and turning up to watch, then the reality is you need players like Folau, Kerevi, Speight, DHP, McMahon, Kuridrani and Hooper playing.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Its not a matter of it been a 'holiday month', its a matter of it been a designated rest period for the players within the RUPA Collective Bargaining Agreement to prevent player burnout and make up for other holidays the players miss throughout the year.

Given that the NRC GF is on the 22nd Oct, thats means the 'leave period' is from 22 Oct - 4 Dec. For Wallabies players this means they won't return to training until January.

Given that we now have the Global Tens on the 11-12th Feb, if all players were to play through Nov then that would give Super Rugby clubs a 4 week pre-season.

Most of the Wallabies players tend not to return to pre-season training until January anyway.

You're looking at a fairly narrow talent pool to fill the squads. One that considering the doesn't necessarily ensure the high quality anyway. How many of the 15s guys that tried for the Olympics made it and of those how many of those were the best players on the park?

As above, the BBL doesn't rely on the profile of the Test squad. The same argument re: quality could be made there. The Test squad is the highest profile team in the country so surely they would be needed to ensure the BBL is of high quality. Except, as with the 15 man game many cannot make the transition as dominant players.

Part of the process would yes, be using existing talent but also using it as a carrot to bring over other athletes with potential to make great 7s/Rugby players as well as provide an entertaining product for fans both established and new alike,

That's why I agree with and briefly outlined how I think the national club 7s championship should be used as a means of identifying talent for this specific purpose,

 

[RugbyReg]

Do any other teams apart from the Waratahs do women's 7s as the half time entertainment?

In my years of going to the Tahs it is easily the best half time entertainment they've had and the crowd actually gets engaged by it.

All the teams should be doing it.

The Reds have done it in the past but not every match

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

It would be a fair assessment to say that a fair chunk of the best rugby players in this country are within the 33man Wallabies squad..

Ok i should have clarified, the best and highest profile players. BBL leverages marquee players extensively.. As unfortunate as it is, having Ed Jenkins in a team isn't going to get the turnstiles turning or tens of thousands tuning in.

If what you're talking about it a commercialised and self-funding tournament which will get people tuning in and turning up to watch, then the reality is you need players like Folau, Kerevi, Speight, DHP, McMahon, Kuridrani and Hooper playing.

Yes, at the 15 man game. I wouldn't argue that they are the best players in the country. But that doesn't necessarily translate to 7s. As I've already mentioned, how many people outside of established Cricket fans would have an idea of who the BBL marquees are? Considering new fans make up a significant percentage of who they are looking to engage, exactly how valuable are those names?

We have an opportunity to bring in marquees as well. Like the BBL it will probably only be the established Rugby people who will have an idea who they are but that doesn't matter as long as they add to the product on display.

 

[Braveheart81]

Where does the money come from to bring anyone in?

A 7s World Series Tournament runs over a weekend and has 16 teams or 192 players.

If you're going to run 3-4 hours of Sevens in an evening means 8-10 games (the World Series has a game every 22 minutes). You could have 8 teams and 2 matches were evening but those turnarounds become shorter than ideal.

It's a tough thing to make headway with.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Where does the money come from to bring anyone in?

A 7s World Series Tournament runs over a weekend and has 16 teams or 192 players.

If you're going to run 3-4 hours of Sevens in an evening means 8-10 games (the World Series has a game every 22 minutes). You could have 8 teams and 2 matches were evening but those turnarounds become shorter than ideal.

It's a tough thing to make headway with.

From the article I've read on The Roar each team would essentially have two byes each which means there would only be 6 games an evening.

As for the financials. I'm not the one behind the article and it is a difficult question to answer. But in the next year or so we have the best possible opportunity to use the success of 7s Olympic debut to try amd leverage the momentum it has created.

 

[TOCC]

Most of the Wallabies players tend not to return to pre-season training until January anyway.

So you actually think that a 3 to 4 week pre-season window is suitable for Super Rugby teams?

That is the root of the issue here, the November timeframe simply doesn't work, there's no point arguing the semantics of what makes a 15's player a good 7's player if they aren't available to play regardless.

 

[TOCC]

We have an opportunity to bring in marquees as well. Like the BBL it will probably only be the established Rugby people who will have an idea who they are but that doesn't matter as long as they add to the product on display.

Marquee players, from where and who pays them?
New Zealand and South African Super Rugby clubs won't be releasing their players, English and French tournaments are been played over those dates so they aren't available. Players from the HSBC Sevens Series possibly, but thats right in the middle of their pre-season for the HSBC Sevens so they probably won't be available either.

 

[Braveheart81]

From the article I've read on The Roar each team would essentially have two byes each which means there would only be 6 games an evening.

As for the financials. I'm not the one behind the article and it is a difficult question to answer. But in the next year or so we have the best possible opportunity to use the success of 7s Olympic debut to try amd leverage the momentum it has created.

Just had a glance at that article.

They're suggesting 12 of the 16 teams play 1 game each playing night. I.e. 9 nights for each team to play 7 matches (1 each against all other teams for the men and women).

So you're already at 144 participants at each event.

The overheads required to make it happen would be huge.

 

[Omar Comin']

I don't think you'd have many super rugby players involved. Most aren't suitable for sevens anyway. I'd imagine any tournament like this would involve sevens specialists (both Australian and international) and younger players on the fringe of super rugby.

 

[Omar Comin']

The best, and most affordable pool of talent for a competition like this would surely be the islands, and particularly Fiji. When it comes to sevens everyone wants to watch Fijians, so there'd be multiple benefits to having a significant number involved in the league, spread around the teams. Their national team players get paid hardly anything (let alone the dozens of excellent players outside national team selection who play locally). Participating in a short tournament like this before the world series, and getting paid some Aussie dollars to do it would be a nice little earnings booster. Say it was $10k for 20 days of work - that'd be attractive.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

So you actually think that a 3 to 4 week pre-season window is suitable for Super Rugby teams?

That is the root of the issue here, the November timeframe simply doesn't work, there's no point arguing the semantics of what makes a 15's player a good 7's player if they aren't available to play regardless.

A month long pre-season isn't good enough. I agree but many of the Wallabies squad come back after the Christmas break which would only give that time period at present anyway. I think you're getting caught up on the current talent pool a little bit too much here. Look at the women's squad. Many hail from either completely different backgrounds or similar but different.

I've suggested the structure below it based on the proposed club championship format as a means of identifying both existing and new talent that could be used fill such a competition. If someone from say Touch football or AFL or RL among others thinks they have what it takes the structure below provides a pathway and talent id system. Could even do away with having them compete over a 6-10 week period and run 'combines' in each region and then spend that time getting them up to speed.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Marquee players, from where and who pays them?
New Zealand and South African Super Rugby clubs won't be releasing their players, English and French tournaments are been played over those dates so they aren't available. Players from the HSBC Sevens Series possibly, but thats right in the middle of their pre-season for the HSBC Sevens so they probably won't be available either.

The only place you would likely source marquees is from the WS circuit. For a number of reasons. First, they are 7s specialists who train specifically for it. Secondly, most notably they'd likely come with less of a price tag than national team or Super Rugby players. Finally, while yes they may be in pre-season but the opportunity to get some match fitness under their belt leading into the season would be tempting.

Additionally, the article in which I am talking about only calls for 1 international marquee a squad. Even if they were to have 3 or 4 you're still not talking about a whole lot.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Just had a glance at that article.

They're suggesting 12 of the 16 teams play 1 game each playing night. I.e. 9 nights for each team to play 7 matches (1 each against all other teams for the men and women).

So you're already at 144 participants at each event.

The overheads required to make it happen would be huge.

The author actually makes note that something like this would be subject to a feasibility study. Sure, it would be difficult but I still think that at the very least it's worth exploring.

 

[Highlander35]

Would love to see foreigners. Would need to be targeted carefully though. Blokes who's countries don't play too much before/after the World Series, who'd be willing to release the player, and who'd be looking for additional income. Those two criteria probably rule out New Zealand, South Africa, England, Japan, Russia, Wales and Argentina.

That leaves Kenya, Samoa, Fiji, USA, Canada and maybe us (Scotland). Best bet would be the PI boys, both likely to be on lower salaries and significantly more geographically close than the others. But a couple of Kenyans, and maybe a Perry Baker wouldn't be the worst idea ever.


Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

 

[Omar Comin']

Carlin Isles and Perry Baker would certainly bring some publicity.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Where does the money come from to bring anyone in?

A 7s World Series Tournament runs over a weekend and has 16 teams or 192 players.

If you're going to run 3-4 hours of Sevens in an evening means 8-10 games (the World Series has a game every 22 minutes). You could have 8 teams and 2 matches were evening but those turnarounds become shorter than ideal.

It's a tough thing to make headway with.

Where does the money come from for 7s World series Tournament.

(That's a genuine question btw. Is it european tv money? Do host countries stump up? How does it work?)

 

[Strewthcobber]

If I was one of our women's team I'd want to see some pretty thorough and convincing return on investment projections if the ARU is going to be spending money on maquee os mens players.

 

[Omar Comin']

The 'marquee os mens players' from places like Fiji, Kenya, USA etc already get paid considerably less money to play rugby than our gold medal winning women, and it would likely cost less to attract them to such a competition.

 

[RedsHappy]

Apologies if this has been posted before somewhere, but the article via this link is one of best pieces of in-depth analysis I have seen of elite rugby 7s' attacking plays. I really commend it to readers here.

C Morgan is one of the best rugby 15s analysts in the UK.

The article covers the last 2 Aus games of women’s 7s at Rio. Shows - if such was needed - what attacking complexity and related talent there can be at elite levels in this form of the game. (Also btw highlights how good the women's 7s' coaches are.) In no sense is this format ‘inferior’ to 15s, it’s just different.

http://www.rugbyworld.com/tournamen...es-australias-gold-medal-winning-attack-67774