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Rugby League players who could have/could make the switch

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
In relative terms, and in absolute terms as well, loig is far stronger in every way in Australia than it is in New Zealand.


If loig did not exist (oh, happy thought!) rugby in Australia would benefit far more than rugby in New Zealand.


However, that still leaves our AFL playing population.


If neither AFL nor loig existed (wouldn't that be wonderful?), Australia would have to have a stronger national rugby team than New Zealand, just on the weight of numbers.
 

papabear

Watty Friend (18)
If league was never created, imo AFL would be like what the NFL is in America and union would be about as strong as union is in America.

The simple fact is union has at no stage shown any real interest of growing its supporter base outside certain demos.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
If league was never created, rugby union would be far stronger in Australia and would have had a much stronger financial footing to expand in non-traditional rugby cities sooner than it did.

See, it's easy to speculate wildly with hypothetical situations that can't be proven wrong.
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
If neither AFL nor loig existed (wouldn't that be wonderful?), Australia would have to have a stronger national rugby team than New Zealand, just on the weight of numbers.


If this was all that mattered, England would be routinely shitting down the necks of every rugby playing nation on Earth. There's a lot more at play in why the ABs are such a dominant team.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
If league was never created, imo AFL would be like what the NFL is in America and union would be about as strong as union is in America.

The simple fact is union has at no stage shown any real interest of growing its supporter base outside certain demos.

Really? The simple truth is that rugby has far outstripped your little code, internationally. Open your eyes, mate. Have a look at the world as it is, not with mungo blinkers on.


Or, to put it another way, thank your lucky stars that your code exists at all, because if rugby had been serious about spreading, it would still be confined to a few little towns in Northern England.
 

papabear

Watty Friend (18)
Don't know really, they were pretty good in the early days of super rugby and I liked their mascot, kind of like braveheart. Doing alright this year too.

I sort of pick and stick with my sporting teams.

Obviously I don't mind the waratahs due to being local and kurtley beale being a bit of weapon and an idiot, the best kind of footy player.
 

papabear

Watty Friend (18)
If league didn't exist I still have plenty of other sports to follow. No real biggie.

Not bagging union, but in Australia it has not appeared to want to grow into markets outside certain demographics...

but you are right about unions success internationally, it has done well in this regard.

TBH if rugby had been serious from the get go, league would never exist in the first place. Not in northern towns not anywhere.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Another point worth remembering is that rugby was primarily an amateur sport, not a revenue making business which had to be commercially successful in order to pay its players.

So there was no particular reason to spread the sport, other than the sheer love of playing it. How many adults play loig for fun, not money? Lots of people play rugby for fun. People from all backgrounds.


Where I grew up, in a blue-collar home, the local rugby club had a majority of working class players and supporters.
 

Antony

Alex Ross (28)
Yeah I've always had a soft spot for them too. Tony Brown was a helluva player, and they used to have a factory-line of really erudite but tough as nails forwards, back when most of their team was made up of ex-Otago Uni students (like Anton Oliver, et al). Good stuff.
 

kandos

Frank Nicholson (4)
... rugby was primarily an amateur sport, not a revenue making business which had to be commercially successful in order to pay its players.

So there was no particular reason to spread the sport, other than the sheer love of playing it. How many adults play loig for fun, not money?
Thousands did / do. The vast majority of League players in England are strictly amateur and always have been. They mostly play on municipal park pitches; the Union teams tend to have far superior facilities. I played Union at school and League later.

The main reason League came into being in England was based on the British class system. Professionalism was what the Establishment used as an excuse to keep the great unwashed from dominating their sport.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
The main reason League came into being in England was based on the British class system. Professionalism was what the Establishment used as an excuse to keep the great unwashed from dominating their sport.


Yep and it wasn't just rugby. In cricket there was a rule (written or not, I'm not sure) that the captain was to be an amateur and the players could be professional, but mostly it was those unseemly ruffians from the North who bowled quick. Len Hutton was the first pro to captain England, in 1952(!). It's always baffled me as an Aussie of (recent) European origin why professionalism was looked down upon by the upper classes in the UK. Unfortunately it pervaded our great game for a long time too, basically because the Home Unions made the rules. League should never have taken off in OZ, but the amateur code laid plenty of fertile ground for it to flourish (as well as rugby shutting down for long periods in the early 20th century).
 

kandos

Frank Nicholson (4)
'Professionalism' is a misnomer regarding League. Until Wigan went pro in the early 90's, the history of the game in England was that the players had proper jobs and got paid a win / lose bonus that made nobody well off. The irony is that the only signing on fees that meant anything was paid to Union converts (mostly Welsh players who were working-class). I'm just pleased 1995 got rid of the sham that existed with boot money etc.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
TBH, rugby shut "down for long periods in the early 20th century" because rugby players felt it was their duty to pick up a rifle and head off overseas. There was no rugby competition on Sydney or Brisbane during WWI (in fact it didn't revive in Queensland until the late 1920s); league saw things differently and played on, and gained enormous ground during their first 10 years in Australia which they've never relinquished. The numbers of rugby players who perished in the Great War vastly outnumber those from a league background. I find this clinging to the ANZAC legend by the league authorities to be laughable, bordering on offensive, as their predecessors blatantly used a major conflict to advance their cause.

If Sean Fagan happens to glance at these posts it'd be nice for a longer piece on this point. Or references where we can read further.

On matters cricket, while there was an amateur captain with some professionals in the English team the authorities insisted the two parties enter the grounds through different gates: the amateurs used the Members' while the professionals came in via the tradesmen's. Appalling. But SO English.
 

Westie

Sydney Middleton (9)
Really? The simple truth is that rugby has far outstripped your little code, internationally. Open your eyes, mate. Have a look at the world as it is, not with mungo blinkers on.


Or, to put it another way, thank your lucky stars that your code exists at all, because if rugby had been serious about spreading, it would still be confined to a few little towns in Northern England.

League only exists because of aru mismanagement.
 

Westie

Sydney Middleton (9)
Don't know really, they were pretty good in the early days of super rugby and I liked their mascot, kind of like braveheart. Doing alright this year too.

I sort of pick and stick with my sporting teams.

Obviously I don't mind the waratahs due to being local and kurtley beale being a bit of weapon and an idiot, the best kind of footy player.

More idiot than weapon.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Thousands did / do. The vast majority of League players in England are strictly amateur and always have been. They mostly play on municipal park pitches; the Union teams tend to have far superior facilities. I played Union at school and League later.

The main reason League came into being in England was based on the British class system. Professionalism was what the Establishment used as an excuse to keep the great unwashed from dominating their sport.


I am talking from the Australian perspective. Amateurism in sport is a whole subject on its own merits. Hard for people to get their minds around the fact that the vast majority of international sports used to be either amateur, or divided into amateur and professional vectors.

Loig in Australia has been aggressively professional for as long as I can remember, whereas rugby is still, at heart, a sport for people who love it.

Loig enjoyed its huge expansionary phase primarily because of the advent of licences clubs in N.S.W.

My best friend, a very good rugby player and State level athlete, became a schoolteacher and got married young. He needed money, and so instead of staying in rugby (where he could have risen to the top) he starting playing what used to be called park footy for Guildford in Sydney's west. He was one of a handful of professionals on the team, after the match he and the other paid players lined up and were handed ten quid notes straight out of the bar takings by the manager of the licences club. In those days a young teacher earned about twenty quid a week, so this made all the difference to him and his young family.

He did not enjoy playing, he said it was pretty unpleasant because of the total lack of camaraderie and enjoyment amongst the playing group, who spent all their time, on and off the field, manoeuvring to earn more money.

It is interesting to speculate how loig might have developed had they had not had the poker machine money, which was huge and unregulated for many years.
 

papabear

Watty Friend (18)
TBH, rugby shut "down for long periods in the early 20th century" because rugby players felt it was their duty to pick up a rifle and head off overseas. There was no rugby competition on Sydney or Brisbane during WWI (in fact it didn't revive in Queensland until the late 1920s); league saw things differently and played on, and gained enormous ground during their first 10 years in Australia which they've never relinquished. The numbers of rugby players who perished in the Great War vastly outnumber those from a league background. I find this clinging to the ANZAC legend by the league authorities to be laughable, bordering on offensive, as their predecessors blatantly used a major conflict to advance their cause.

Is Sean Fagan happens to glance at these posts it'd be nice for a longer piece on this point. Or references where we can read further.

On matters cricket, while there was an amateur captain with some professionals in the English team the authorities insisted the two parties enter the grounds through different gates: the amateurs used the Members' while the professionals came in via the tradesmen's. Appalling. But SO English.

I read a lot of forums :(.

This is quite frankly the most inaccurate post I have ever read in all my time. the post uses the word offensive, a good word to describe this post in its entirety and what infers on a certain part of the population who actually believe it.

Rugby League did not use a war to advance there cause, it played through the war just like the AFL did. Just because rugby union couldn't play through the war or decide not to, has nothing to do with "code wars" or what rugby league or the AFL did.

Rugby Union in france however, did make deals with a pro nazi occupied government to forcibly steal all rugby league assets and hand them over to union. Restitution to this day has not been repaid. French Rugby Union maintains its status because of the deals it made with hitlers puppets, they have not apologised and given back the assets, they have done nothing. game of thirteen.... think about where that term comes form.
 

RugbyFuture

Lord Logo
Much like how league touts itself as another version of rugby, I like to think of FIRA ruled rugby as Rugby Association in this sense.

Similarly to people saying league used the war to advance its cause (which I doubt it did, but was certainly advantageous during this time to be able to keep playing) Rugby in France during the war, barring in other particulars was governed by FIRA who were completely separate organisation again to any of the IRFB ruled nations such as those on the UK, NZ and Australia.

So if Rugby league is merely a splitoff of rugby football, as many in the league circles talk about then Vichy france rugby was a separate governing body again. And that's distinct to any of the random conspiracy theories that mungos or rugger buggers can put forward as an absolute fact.
 
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