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Rugby News from unexpected places

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
One thing not mentioned on this thread last weekend was that Brazil beat Argentina XV 36-33. They actually pipped the Crusaders for the biggest comeback of the weekend as they were down 33-3 at half time.

I don't know exactly how strong the Argentinian side was but it contained at least 3 capped Pumas, including Tomas Cubelli. Huge result for Brazil and a good sign of competitiveness for this South American professional league starting next year.


Third tier Argentina squad. Below the Jaguares. A pretty good result overall as it puts Brazil in place to take out the title if they overcome Colombia this weekend. Also, Chile beat Uruguay XV as well. Which hasn't happened much recently either.
 

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
More interesting revelations regarding MLR in the Guardian. Apparently Los Angeles is very close. As in possibly as soon as next year.

According to anotger source Atlanta are getting pretty close as well.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
LA has this reputation for being a pretty poor sports city. I think the crowds for the NFL there haven't been great for example (relative to everywhere else, especially when taking into account population). It is a huge place though so hopefully rugby can find a decent niche if they take a team there.

I hope a team or two from Canada gets confirmed for next year. Canadian rugby is in danger of being left behind.
 

Beer Baron

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Russia in.
Spain, Belgium and Romania disqualified according to BBC. all had points deducted on the grounds of eligibility.

Germany meet Portugal to get the honour of being flogged by Samoa.

Romania appealing - no doubt to be followed by the others.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
I can't see much chance of any appeal being successful. Though I do feel a bit for these unions as I'm sure there was no intention to field ineligible players and they just lacked the resources or assistance to check these things thoroughly. No doubt they received bad advice from other unions or perhaps even World Rugby at the time as well. There needs to be an overhaul in how this is done in future, with a central database of 'captured' international players that any union can access.

Anyway, now that Germany are a chance of qualifying I wonder if Hans-Peter Wild and the German union can come to some kind of agreement to get Germany back to full strength. They did beat Romania in a match last year, and while I don't think they'd have much chance against Samoa, that team (with all their South Africans back) may have a shot against Canada and whoever else is in the repechage.

If not then I think Portugal will have a pretty good chance of beating them.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
A key lesson out of this is certainly that World Rugby needs to take control of the RWC qualifying process at an earlier stage next time around.

Clearly Rugby Europe is a pretty fledgling organisation and it can't be relied on to oversee things at these latter stages. It reflects poorly on World Rugby and their credibility is damaged by it.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
A key lesson out of this is certainly that World Rugby needs to take control of the RWC qualifying process at an earlier stage next time around.

Clearly Rugby Europe is a pretty fledgling organisation and it can't be relied on to oversee things at these latter stages. It reflects poorly on World Rugby and their credibility is damaged by it.


Definitely. I wonder if there's any appetite to move away from having so many automatic qualifiers and run proper qualifying tournaments like they have in soccer. In the soccer world cup only the host qualifies automatically.

Could be a cool way to have more tier 1 vs tier 2 matches outside of world cups.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Definitely. I wonder if there's any appetite to move away from having so many automatic qualifiers and run proper qualifying tournaments like they have in soccer. In the soccer world cup only the host qualifies automatically.

Could be a cool way to have more tier 1 vs tier 2 matches outside of world cups.


No chance. No one wants to see 100 point floggings and the financial cost to the tier 1 teams to play real minnows is huge.

If you look at the 2015 RWC qualification, the teams that were just outside qualifying tended to get flogged by the teams that qualified as the lowest ranked teams at the RWC. The gaps are closing between the minnows and the tier 1 and 2 nations at the RWC but the drop to the next level of teams is still massive.

Soccer has far greater depth and there are many games through those qualifying phases that are huge drawcards.

You could maybe consider decreasing the number of direct qualifiers to 8 (down from 12) but then that tends to punish some of the tier 2 nations who can least afford to sacrifice revenue.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
No chance. No one wants to see 100 point floggings and the financial cost to the tier 1 teams to play real minnows is huge.

If you look at the 2015 RWC qualification, the teams that were just outside qualifying tended to get flogged by the teams that qualified as the lowest ranked teams at the RWC. The gaps are closing between the minnows and the tier 1 and 2 nations at the RWC but the drop to the next level of teams is still massive.

Soccer has far greater depth and there are many games through those qualifying phases that are huge drawcards.

You could maybe consider decreasing the number of direct qualifiers to 8 (down from 12) but then that tends to punish some of the tier 2 nations who can least afford to sacrifice revenue.

I think it'd be ideal to avoid tier 1 teams playing real minnows, but even if you had a tier 1 v tier 3 match from time to time it'd be no problem because the tier 1 team could win with a B team. Africa is probably the one region where this would be unavoidable because there's only 1 top tier side, but South Africa could cruise through qualifying for at least the foreseeable future. They would have no trouble playing Zimbabwe on a Friday night, and England (with their best team) the following night for example. So I don't think there's really any financial opportunity cost. And those matches between South Africa (even if it's a B team) and the likes of Kenya, Zimbabwe, Namibia etc could be quite big events in those countries and help develop the game.

In every other region you could avoid tier 1 vs tier 3 matches through seeding. For example in Oceania you could have Australia, NZ, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga playoff in some kind of way with the top 4 qualifying automatically and the bottom team having to playoff against the best from a secondary group (Cook Islands or Papua New Guinea or whoever). Great way to have Australia and NZ play semi-regular test matches against Pacific Island nations in games that really do mean something.
 

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
A key lesson out of this is certainly that World Rugby needs to take control of the RWC qualifying process at an earlier stage next time around.

Clearly Rugby Europe is a pretty fledgling organisation and it can't be relied on to oversee things at these latter stages. It reflects poorly on World Rugby and their credibility is damaged by it.


Rugby Europe is just the old FIRA rebranded. The base organisation has been around for quite a while. Which makes this situation all the worse for them.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Rugby Europe is just the old FIRA rebranded. The base organisation has been around for quite a while. Which makes this situation all the worse for them.


Fledgling was the wrong word. I didn't mean to imply it was young, just that it was pretty amateur and under resourced to be able to properly oversee an important tournament.
 

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
Fledgling was the wrong word. I didn't mean to imply it was young, just that it was pretty amateur and under resourced to be able to properly oversee an important tournament.


It's is a largely amateur organisation. That's true. But it isn't their first time running the RWCQ process. The competition in question (Rugby European Championship) is just the old ENC D1A (European Nation Cup) structure that has been used to qualify teams for previous RWC.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Fledgling was the wrong word. I didn't mean to imply it was young, just that it was pretty amateur and under resourced to be able to properly oversee an important tournament.
Fledgling can mean underdeveloped which would be accurate i would have thought.
 

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
Sacramento Valley LLC is now looking for investors for a run at MLR. They appear to be coming out of the woodwork now. In doing so, they may have given the best indication of how much capital is actually required to get up and running in the league. And that is $6.25m. This comes from their two tiers of investment opportunity. The first is ten $250k blocks. and the 2nd is 150 $25k blocks.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
Sacramento makes a lot of sense. Only the one major sporting team in the city (the Kings in the NBA) and it had the best crowds in Pro Rugby. Decent sized rugby community there by US standards too from what I've heard.
 

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
Sacramento makes a lot of sense. Only the one major sporting team in the city (the Kings in the NBA) and it had the best crowds in Pro Rugby. Decent sized rugby community there by US standards too from what I've heard.


And considering the sheer expense in setting up and running a sports team in the Bay area. It has the opportunity to tap into the entire NorCal scene. Assuming they find the financing. It's quite amazing really. Going from these figures we're looking at something along the lines of around $80m to get the professional established in the US.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
It's good to see the amount of money behind it. Have you heard anything about how it's been rating on cbs or the other networks showing games? I would expect the ratings to be small, but if there's any signs of growing interest that would be a big deal.

I think the competition is going to last. Way too early to say how successful it might be, but at the very least it seems there is enough interest and support for it to survive as a semi-professional competition averaging crowds of a few thousand people. Hopefully it will grow in the next few years and be sustainably professional with average crowds closer to 10k (or more).

I watched a fair bit of the Seattle Seawolves vs Utah game yesterday and it was very entertaining, and the atmosphere was great. Whenever they aired shots of the crowd you could see that a pretty high percentage of people had Seawolves jerseys or shirts on. If the league can get 8 or more teams supported like that it'll be a big success.
 

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
It's good to see the amount of money behind it. Have you heard anything about how it's been rating on cbs or the other networks showing games? I would expect the ratings to be small, but if there's any signs of growing interest that would be a big deal.

I think the competition is going to last. Way too early to say how successful it might be, but at the very least it seems there is enough interest and support for it to survive as a semi-professional competition averaging crowds of a few thousand people. Hopefully it will grow in the next few years and be sustainably professional with average crowds closer to 10k (or more).

I watched a fair bit of the Seattle Seawolves vs Utah game yesterday and it was very entertaining, and the atmosphere was great. Whenever they aired shots of the crowd you could see that a pretty high percentage of people had Seawolves jerseys or shirts on. If the league can get 8 or more teams supported like that it'll be a big success.


I actually heard something about the ratings last night and was coming to this thread to post them before I read your comment. Apparently it's averaging 75k on CBS and around the same on ESPN +. No word on the AT & T regional broadcasts. While that doesn't look like much in such a large market it actually compares fairly favourably to other relatively recent (in terms of 'major' professional competition) start ups in the form of Major League Lacrosse and Major League Soccer.

MLL has been around since 2001 and barely beats MLR on ratings now. While MLS was founded in 1993 and only rates in the mid 200k.

In regards to corwds. Both Seattle and Utah are the standard setters. They re averaging about the same and tend to be very vocal in their support. San Diego is quickly approaching them on both fronts as well. Houston should have the first stage of their stadium development done by next season which is similar in size to that of Seattle and much more convenient to get to than their current set up so they should draw in similar numbers to that next season. They do have the fan base for it. New York definitely will and DC should.

Glendale has treated this very much as a beta season and haven't pushed the marketing side of it as hard as they could have. But with the right mix they'll go close to filling their stadium next season as well. The concerns are NOLA and Austin. For differing reasons. For NOLA it's largely due to the size of their Rugby community. It's easily the smallest of the lot. I was concerned about the rushed nature of their facility but they've got a lot to work planned in the off season that will provide the necessary finishing. There's also plenty of room for them to expand that facility if and when that's necessary.

Austin on the other hand seems to be all politically driven. Apparently the ownership group are not well liked by other clubs for reasons I haven't had explained beyond parochialism is pretty entrenched in the city when it comes to Rugby. They also have issue with where they've been based. Round Rock which is on the outskirts of the city. However, it's hard to judge what their interest truly is as their only home game so far was on a stormy Thursday evening.

There has been some hinting at one of the groups may be looking to sell their licence. If that is indeed the case and not somone trying to stir shit (which is possible) I'd be willing to bet it's Austin.
 
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