Rugby post 2019

[Strewthcobber]

What's the thinking behind the SH wanting it moved?

Would we shift the TRC to the same time or something?

The six nations is so successful where it is - you'd want a bloody good reason to move it.

 

[Lindommer]

A good reason: shit weather for starters. The grounds in Europe are much better in March and April.

 

[Highlander35]

A good reason: shit weather for starters. The grounds in Europe are much better in March and April.

 

[Strewthcobber]

A good reason: shit weather for starters. The grounds in Europe are much better in March and April.

Punters don't care.

Can't sell out the games any more than they do now

They just about get more people watching one weekend then there are people in Australia.

Anyway, doesn't answer the question. Why do SH administrators care?

 

[The torpedo]

Here's an idea:

Top 14: split into east & west conferences: both teams play the teams in their own conference twice and the teams in the other conference once, 20 rounds. top 4 teams in the overall standings go to the playoffs and bottom 2 teams overall are relegated. Redistribute conferences if need be. Ditto pro D2. Start both in January

Aviva Premiership: same thing, but only 6 teams in each conference, 18 rounds. Start beginning of February. Same thing RFU Championship (finals and relegation determined by overall standing)

Pro 12: 3 conferences: Wales, Ireland and Scotland-Italy. Each team plays its own conference twice, then the teams in the other 2 conferences once. Finals are determined by the overall standing.

Semi-finals and finals in Europe are scheduled to ensure no games clash

June tests begin 2 weeks post finals & end 3 weeks after

TRC starts beginning of August (NRC, Currie Cup, ITM Cup starts the weekend after the club season finishes). 6N starts a week after (only 7 weeks compared to 8 weeks). All teams have a few weeks off then Spring Tour starts. End of spring tour = end of rugby season, and then we can all go watch cricket/soccer

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Here's an idea:

Top 14: split into east & west conferences: both teams play the teams in their own conference twice and the teams in the other conference once, 20 rounds. top 4 teams in the overall standings go to the playoffs and bottom 2 teams overall are relegated. Redistribute conferences if need be. Ditto pro D2. Start both in January

Aviva Premiership: same thing, but only 6 teams in each conference, 18 rounds. Start beginning of February. Same thing RFU Championship (finals and relegation determined by overall standing)

Pro 12: 3 conferences: Wales, Ireland and Scotland-Italy. Each team plays its own conference twice, then the teams in the other 2 conferences once. Finals are determined by the overall standing.

Semi-finals and finals in Europe are scheduled to ensure no games clash

June tests begin 2 weeks post finals & end 3 weeks after

TRC starts beginning of August (NRC, Currie Cup, ITM Cup starts the weekend after the club season finishes). 6N starts a week after (only 7 weeks compared to 8 weeks). All teams have a few weeks off then Spring Tour starts. End of spring tour = end of rugby season, and then we can all go watch cricket/soccer

I'd go with two conferences of 6 teams. Two Irish, Two Welsh, One Scottish and One Italian. Play each other home and away and then each team from the other conference once. Total sixteen games. Same for the AP.

 

[Highlander35]

There'll be no great revolution in Club Rugby bar getting bigger.

French are restructuring. Federale 1 is going to turn from a Semi Pro/Shamatuer comp with 40 teams in 10 Conferences to a fully pro version with 16 teams, and potentially see the Top14 grow to 16 teams.

England too are always looking at 14 teams. There were 14 foundation members (the 12 Current Teams, along with the London Irish and Leeds/Yorkshire-Carnegie) and 12 was only meant to be the number of teams at the start. Then teams like Doncaster, London Welsh, Nottingham and Rotherham would all want to still have an opportunity to become top flight teams, so there'd never be ring fencing.

And at heart, they're european club competitions. Anything bar double round robins is a little American for their tastes.

 

[Highlander35]

Not sure where else to put it, so here we go:

http://m.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/37340730

.'They knew about 15-year-old schoolboys'

The answer is not clear-cut. In May, World Rugby's vice-president, Argentinian former scrum-half Agustin Pichot, spoke with honesty and passion of his distaste for the present eligibility criteria.

But Ryan fears extending the residential period to five years, as has been mooted, would only drive scouts and clubs to recruit ever-younger island players.

"I went to Toulon in pre-season, and they knew about 15-year-olds that were playing in Fiji school competitions," he says.

"And I've seen agents that have been to our national schools finals, and they leave when they get to the under-16s, because they say that's too late, they want to spot them early.

"That's already happening. They'll go to the villages, they'll give some money or incentives to their family to get them to go overseas, and then they'll take them to their French, Australian or New Zealand clubs or schools or academies.

Worrying signs. Least the Pro12 are, "the good guys".

 

[The torpedo]

Not sure where else to put it, so here we go:

http://m.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/37340730





Worrying signs. Least the Pro12 are, "the good guys".

I reckon that WR (World Rugby) needs to step in and do something about it

 

[Strewthcobber]

Who is losing out here though?

If done right these kids (and men) are getting more education, opportunity and money than they would at home

Our Sport discriminates financially against those who are from a smaller country. I don't think that's particularly fair

 

[Braveheart81]

Some players of Pacific Island origin playing international rugby for other countries through residential qualification seems like a small price to pay for those Pacific Island countries to have high level professional opportunities for their players and ultimately giving them a chance to continue to compete in test rugby.

The situation would be better for no one if those players were just denied opportunities to play pro rugby in Europe.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...by-boss-snubs-all-blacks-plea-over-twickenham

.... and The (English) RFU wonder why the rest of the rugby world mostly think they're a pack of arrogant, self-serving cnuts who don't give a flying fuck about the good of the game as long as their interests are served (actually they probably don't wonder, on account of them being a pack of arrogant, self-serving cnuts who don't give a flying fuck about the good of the game as long as their interests are served).

It'll never happen, of course, but wouldn't it be fucking awesome if the SANZAAR partners told the Poms to go fuck themselves & boycotted jolly old Twickers for a bit. See how they like playing Georgia, Japan & the PI every November while the Celts get the Wobs, Bokke, Pumas & AB.

 

[amirite]

The only people losing out are the Pacific nations boys who come over for shitty deals. These aren't the blokes playing high levels, but the ones coming over young to play, for example, Federale 1 in France (or lower).

At this point they're out-of-sight, out-of-mind and end up never making it to the big leagues. The better career move would be to play NRC or NPC, but there's not much money for management in this.

The issue is that whilst the high level teams only deal with accredited and ethical player agents, lower teams will deal with anyone for the right coin. Lots of stories of blokes coming over on seedy visas and the like.

The key point for me here is the the Pacific Nations are becoming more competitive at test level, not less, so things are okay at a macro level. It's still a damn shame to see guys getting mistreated though.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

So, who's gunna blink first? Us (Southern hemisphere) or Them (Northern)? Logic suggests Them somewhat more than Us, but at the end of the day I expect that money will be the determining factor so it'll be Us somewhat more than Them.

"Rugby’s major stakeholders have taken a significant step towards agreeing an optimised global calendar beyond Rugby World Cup 2019. "

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/world-rugby-progress-towards-global-calendar/

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11792671

 

[amirite]

Lots of easy wins to be found calendar-wise.

The example, the 6 nations is the annual jewel in the North's crown and is played at a terrible time of year weather-wise. That alone is cause for a reshuffle.

But I will say, what's the big issue with the international calendar? It makes it hard for guys to move employment wise between hemispheres? It means they're more ready when they tour us and we're more ready when we tour them?

Big deal really.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^^^^ as far as I can decipher Tew & others positions, I think the plan is to seperate Club/ Franchise & International footy so e.g. France can send a full-strength team on their SH tour & there's not so many Reg 9 issues with the SH reciprocal tours. So, Super Rugby played at same time as EPR/ Pro12/ Top 14, 6N at same time as TRC, off-season at most unfavourable time of year i.e. middle of NH winter/ middle of SH summer.

Makes perfect sense to me but, again, money will be the determining factor so we'll probably end up with a compromise that no-one particularly likes but everyone can live with (weighted in NH's favour, of course).

 

[amirite]

Seems like the only real issue then is with the ridiculously long Top 14 system and with nothing else.

The 6N could be whenever (though it should change) as long as there's no clashes.

 

[Highlander35]

Why move the 6 Nations? Thing basically sells out and has very high viewership year after year, along with being one of the top 3 (at worst) rugby tournaments in the world.

By my mind, the Euros reckon If it ain't broke don't fix it, and Euro rugby isn't "broken".

 

[Strewthcobber]

Why move the 6 Nations? Thing basically sells out and has very high viewership year after year, along with being one of the top 3 (at worst) rugby tournaments in the world.

By my mind, the Euros reckon If it ain't broke don't fix it, and Euro rugby isn't "broken".

It's a bit like saying the MCG cricket test could be played anytime of year.

Sure, you could move the boxing day test, but you'd want a bloody good reason.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

I think the best the SH Unions can hope for at this stage is for the mid-year tours to be pushed back so there's no break in Super Rugby & they don't overlap with EPR & Top 14 finals. That pretty much means TRC & EOYT also have to be pushed back, even if only by 2-3 weeks so the players get a break: problem there being the 12-week post-EOYT stand down potentially runs into Super Rugby the following year.