RWC QF 4 AUS v SCO (Twickenham) 19th Oct 0200 AEDT

[Braveheart81]

It's not unusual for professional sportspeople to want to play through pain in an effort to pass fit for selection.

At this point of the tournament most of our players will be carrying various niggles.

It's up to the medical staff to determine that someone isn't injured to the extent that they are likely to do further damage to the injured area and then make sure the players show a sufficient level of fitness that they aren't passed fit to the detriment of the team.

 

[Viking]

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but this just doesn't seem right....it just seems plain stupid!

.quoting Cheika in an article published today...

“Rob Horne is desperate to be selected, he’s desperate to be picked and is prepared to go through the pain to do it,” Cheika said.
“That’s what it says about him. I think the players on our trip this year, it’s been really interesting. Wycliff Palu stayed and played through an injury to do his bit for the team. (Will) Skelton was desperate to stay even though his pec was ripped off the bone.
“Now anyone that has had any type of niggle, they’re making sure that no one knows about it so they can stay.”
About an hour after Cheika uttered those words, Folau appeared to demonstrate a similar attitude by tweeting “I can, I will, I must.”
The fullback is carrying an ankle injury but Cheika is confident he will play.
“We will do the same as we did last week, we will let it run until Friday and see how we go,” Cheika said.
“I would said Izzy is better than he was last week at the same stage . and Poey we will see how he is on Friday.”

Hopefully this article is simply praising our players attitude rather then Cheika supporting the fact players are hiding niggling injuries.

I mean suggesting an injured Horne is more valuable then any of our other wingers at 100% is crazy talk.

 

[Mr Doug]

I'm sure there are several uninjured ('fringe') players who also want to be selected in the 23 for this match!

 

[Braveheart81]

I guess it will depend how Horne recovers after yesterday's contact session and then how he goes today and tomorrow.

It's certainly a more positive sign that he is right to play that he is getting through training during the week compared with Folau and Pocock who have been sitting out.

It seems like a much greater risk to let Folau and Pocock play without putting them through an extended session.

I'm sure Folau can grit his teeth and run etc. but can he do it for 80 minutes?Can he leap for a high ball with confidence and then do it again a few minutes later and a few minutes after that?

 

[mudskipper]

Here's the video of the Gray/Ford "spear tackle" if anybody is interested:

Thanks i had t seen it... the lock intentionaly lifts while the hooker was just engaged in the tackle so in my opinion its a bit harsh on him...

 

[mudskipper]

As far as injuries go cheika cant play too many backs with question marks over fitness, so i cant genuinely see horne playing this week. Great to hear he is on his way back thou... Mitchell is the man for the scots QF...

 

[jollyswagman]

There is a flip side to creating an uber-competitive environment and for me this situation represents that pretty well. In essence I agree that it is a good thing that the guys are willing to tough it out and I am well aware that it is common place for players to be carrying niggles even for an entire season. Horne's injury, along with the other three did seem a little more serious than a little niggle and all the injuiries have clearly effected their on-field performances.....Folau's injury seemingly having the greatest negative effect. It was probably just the selected quotes taken from the press conference that made it sound like maybe the guys are so worried about losing their starting spot that they are willing to push it when they should probably take another week off???

Would it be unfair to say that the players who are insisting that they are fine despite their injuries are being selfish in some way? Possibly putting their own desire to play apart in this story ahead of the teams best interest? How does the mantra of "having faith in all the players to get the job done" apply to this situation?

I must admit that my opinion about the injury situation is somewhat skewed as I don' feel there is no need to take any risks running out players with "big niggles" against Scotland....too much risk for my mind.

I can appreciate the "one game at a time" philosophy but at the same time you could argue that this could be a very short-sighted approach that may turn around and bite us on the arse. If we beat Scotland and then lose the following week then we have come up short. The Wallabies have gone there to win the world cup and the fact of the matter is that we are not going to need the same tools to bury Scotland as we will to win a final.......and before I get accused by anyone of disrespecting Scotland I would like to add that I am a huge Scotland fan. I have been supporting them my whole life thanks to my Scottish father. They are my team in the 6 nations and despite having an English mother, I hate the English rugby team as much as any true-blooded Aussie does. Unfortunately for Scotland I think they are going to get thumped by a very good Wallaby team this weekend.

 

[Braveheart81]

You certainly don't want players declaring themselves fit if they know they aren't.

By the same token, the medical staff and coaching team need to put players through appropriate fitness tests to ensure they are right to be selected.

I don't think it's selfish of a player to do everything they can to be declared fit. It would be selfish if they said they were fit to play but knew they weren't.

I don't think it really comes down to players being worried about losing their spot in the team. Folau and Pocock are obviously walk up starters and Horne is clearly in Cheika's first choice XV because the backline defence is moulded around him.

 

[mudskipper]

Indeed jollyswangman, in addition I think there are too many great expectations on Folau from the wallabies press at this RWC... Would be good if he was just left alone to be just another tour guy...

 

[jollyswagman]

.....
I don't think it's selfish of a player to do everything they can to be declared fit. It would be selfish if they said they were fit to play but knew they weren't.

I agree with your first sentence above entirely BH. I guess my suggestion comes to down to the respective players judgement as Folau had stated last week that he as about 90% and wouldn't strap his boots on is he felt his ankle wasn't up for it.......well the ankle wasn't up to it and it did have an impact on his game, so much so that he was not even competing for the high balls sent his way later in the game.

 

[jollyswagman]

.....I mean suggesting an injured Horne is more valuable then any of our other wingers at 100% is crazy talk.

This is what had me worried Seb. Why else would they consider bringing him back this weekend? Surely if they do end up selecting him this weekend it would suggest that a Rob Horne with a suspect shoulder is better than any other wing option available.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It's not unusual for professional sportspeople to want to play through pain in an effort to pass fit for selection.

At this point of the tournament most of our players will be carrying various niggles.

It's up to the medical staff to determine that someone isn't injured to the extent that they are likely to do further damage to the injured area and then make sure the players show a sufficient level of fitness that they aren't passed fit to the detriment of the team.

That's fine if it is only a niggle. Bit Izzy's ankle quite demonstrably affected his ability to jump for the high ball last week. If a player is unable to perform one or more of the crucial roles of his position, it is more than a niggle imo.

 

[Groucho]

Hopefully this article is simply praising our players attitude rather then Cheika supporting the fact players are hiding niggling injuries.

I mean suggesting an injured Horne is more valuable then any of our other wingers at 100% is crazy talk.

This whole bizzo about Cheika picking injured players seems like a beat-up to me. Journalists angling to manufacture a controversy. The same quotes could be rearranged to give an impression of players trying to find fitness in order to play.

 

[Groucho]

That's fine if it is only a niggle. Bit Izzy's ankle quite demonstrably affected his ability to jump for the high ball last week. If a player is unable to perform one or more of the crucial roles of his position, it is more than a niggle imo.

I think the progression of Folau's injury, and the effect it had on his game, was an unpleasant surprise to everyone. He was passed fit but that turned out to be a wrong decision.

At least I hope that's the case, otherwise our coaching team and medical staff know less then we do about injury management.

 

[Quick Hands]

Here's the video of the Gray/Ford "spear tackle" if anybody is interested:

Thanks for this. TK was (quite rightly) red-carded for a more innocuous than this. Can't believe that it was dealt with on field by penalty only. Should have been 2 red cards IMO - this stuff needs to be stamped right out of the game with the harshest possible penalties.

 

[jollyswagman]

I think the progression of Folau's injury, and the effect it had on his game, was an unpleasant surprise to everyone. He was passed fit but that turned out to be a wrong decision.

At least I hope that's the case, otherwise our coaching team and medical staff know less then we do about injury management.

Interesting comment Groucho. I think the general consensus is that Cheika, and the rest of the support team, have done an amazing job so far and I can't recall reading any bad press or criticism of his methods. It could be said he has been playing his part to perfection and this in itself may be cause for concern. Surely, at some point in this tournament, he is going to get something horribly wrong......well, maybe that would stretching it, but it could be something as simple as a contentious call back firing. I am praying that the situation surrounding Folau, Pocock & Gits does not turn out to be the call that has serious ramifications.

Anyway, pointless to worry to much and I am really looking forward to this weekend. As much as I have enjoyed the plethora of rugby each week I am very much looking forward to the business end of the RWC.

 

[Mr Doug]

This is what had me worried Seb. Why else would they consider bringing him back this weekend? Surely if they do end up selecting him this weekend it would suggest that a Rob Horne with a suspect shoulder is better than any other wing option available.

Cheika and his coaching staff have us 'scratching our heads', so perhaps this is just a ploy to further stuff up the minds of the Scottish camp!

 

[Highlander35]

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...rdon-reid-scotland-relish-being-the-underdogs

Classic Gordy.

"Everyone is writing us off as underdogs. I don't care. It's awesome. Just look at the movies. It's always the underdog who wins - just look at the Mighty Ducks. We can be those Mighty Ducks."

 

[Braveheart81]

Maybe the Wallabies are the Mighty Ducks, NZ are the Hawks and Scotland are just one of the teams the Mighty Ducks (Australia) have to play on the way to the Pee Wee Hockey League final?

 

[BDA]

The All Blacks are definitely Iceland from MD2.