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S14 re-format

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whocares

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Noddy said:
Wrt the lock shortage. We have 4 OS in Vickers, Andrew Farley, Ed O'D and Cam Treloar. Worth pursuing.

Al Cambell set to join them.

Very true
And if we get Vicks back then he could make an excellent 'mentor' (for lack of a better word) for the new locks set to come up from schools or club.
Same with Elsom when/if he decides to come back.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Good post Lee. (The one I took 10 minutes to read).

Well explained, but it does concern me that people can't see these obvious (possible/probable) benefits that a 5th team could bring. Rugby has for too long sat back while the competing sports do all the progressing, it is time to take some amount of risk to begin the catch up. We have some unique advantages over other codes - physicality and lack of boring draws over soccer, better reputation and real international competition over league, a national brand and international competition over AFL - and it is time we started really exploiting these.
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Scotty said:
Good post Lee. (The one I took 10 minutes to read).

Well explained, but it does concern me that people can't see these obvious (possible/probable) benefits that a 5th team could bring. Rugby has for too long sat back while the competing sports do all the progressing, it is time to take some amount of risk to begin the catch up. We have some unique advantages over other codes - physicality and lack of boring draws over soccer, better reputation and real international competition over league, a national brand and international competition over AFL - and it is time we started really exploiting these.

The NRL suffered when it had 20 teams or 22 teams in the 90s. Yes, we should get a fifth team, but 2010 is too early for mine without a competition at a level below which lets us see which players can handle the jump.
 

Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
Sully said:
We are only getting over the 4th team! Must be the Tahs turn to supply most of the players.

The Tahs have always supplied players for other Super squads and will continue to do so in the future. As Link McKenzie pointed out some time ago Sydney has about 65% of Oz's rugby players but the Tahs have only 25% of the professional contracts, hence the inevitable migration of New South Welsh players elsewhere. The initial Brumbies' squad in 1996 was composed of 15 or 20 Sydney players, some of whom had played for the Tahs. As Lee mentioned earlier, some of them could've stayed to compete for match day squads but others wouldn't've made it due to the sheer weight of numbers. Whether we like it or not there will always be rugby players from New South Wales looking for a gig interstate or overseas.

Adding to this discussion of how to best use our rugby resources, one thing the Kiwis do well is put their available talent to its best use. There's no stockpiling of props or five-eighths or whatever to the detriment of other Super teams which may be short in that position. At the moment the Force look short of hookers and halfbacks while the Tahs have too many. The Reds look short of, well, everything. Getting young blokes to move around our vast continent is a bit more problematic than moving from, say, Wellington to Christchurch but if the ARU are serious about progressing our code something should be done on this front. Come to think of it, a lot of young blokes jumped at moving to Perth when offered a shitload of money. And some not so young.
 
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Spook

Guest
The initial Brumbies' squad in 1996 was composed of 15 or 20 Sydney players, some of whom had played for the Tahs.

ACT defeated NSW 44 to 28 at Sydney's Concord Oval in 1994, which led the way for the ACT to become a franchise
:thumb
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
The NRL suffered when it had 20 teams or 22 teams in the 90s. Yes, we should get a fifth team, but 2010 is too early for mine without a competition at a level below which lets us see which players can handle the jump.

I'm not sure you can compare 22 teams to 5. I know rugby league has a lot more players than union, but why is that? Opportunity for the young guys coming through.

I don't really care if we have 3 teams finish in the bottom 5 positions on the S15 table 2-3 years straight, because I am confident that with the right management and leadership of rugby in Oz we will eventually see the correct results. As far as starting in 2010 is concerned, yes, it might be too early - the announcement would have to come late this year or early next to give the new team any chance to set up in time.

We always thought that the Saffas had too many teams, and that they were always propping up the bottom of the table. Now they have won the S14 and the last world cup. You could argue that stretching themselves has been good for them.
 
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whocares

Guest
I think a decision has been made for us

Economic threat to Super 14 expansion
Jacquelin Magnay | October 13, 2008

Expansion plans of the Super 14 competition to include a fifth Australian side may be cast aside in favour of fast-tracking a Japan-based team following the global credit turmoil.

Australian Rugby Union chief executive John O'Neill, speaking last night from Dublin, said: "There is not a business in Australia that is not taking a deep breath at the moment and we are going through a full assessment of our outlook. This is a paradigm shift and one has to be extremely thoughtful and cautious over the next 18 to 24 months."

While rugby wrestles with the financial crisis, the AFL insists its expansionary vision will not be derailed, with the Gold Coast franchise due to meet the AFL Commission this morning to present its latest submission for final approval for inclusion in the 2011 competition. The AFL's ambitious and expensive expansion plans into western Sydney, slated for 2012, will, however, be closely monitored as the credit crisis intensifies.

"We will continue with our expansion plans but all sports will have to plan and act more conservatively with the changed economy," AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou told the Herald yesterday.

SANZAR officials are meeting in Sydney on Wednesday, and while the rugby union expansion was not initially planned for discussion, the sudden international economic crisis has been put on top of the agenda.

Suddenly, the prospect of five Australian teams in a possible Super 15 competition may become too onerous in a marketplace in which the competition for the football dollar is intense. Some officials believe embracing a team from Japan could soften the possible impact from the current economic squeeze on future rugby TV rights deals, which expire at the end of 2010, just before the 2011 Rugby World Cup. Officials had already flagged their intent to have a six-team finals series next season and to expand to 15 teams in 2010 - with perhaps a Super 18 embracing Asia in 2013-2014.

News Ltd paid $US323 million over five years for the TV rights in Australia and New Zealand.

Rugby's uncertain times come as one of Australia's richest men, Football Federation Australia chairman Frank Lowy, warned on the ABC TV's Offsiders yesterday that "sport will have to contract" because the economic contraction would have an effect on every facet of life.

"I think the world has been living beyond its means. I think the world will have to contract and so will sport have to contract. It's as simple as that," he said.

"There is only so much money to go around. But fortunately the FFA is doing very well. We have got several sponsors, and we just signed Optus for four years this week, and with Qantas and Westfield we are very, very well supported."

The FFA received a $32m Federal Government grant last year, and is likely to receive financial support underpinning the bulk of the $50m to $60m bid for the 2018 World Cup.

Rugby will be the first of the major domestic football codes to face a broadcast rights negotiation, at the end of next year - when the effects of the downturn may still be evident. But the Australian Rugby Union has re-signed its blue-chip naming rights sponsor, Qantas, for a further four years and has a two-year deal with Bundaberg Rum.

NRL chief executive David Gallop said he was optimistic clubs would withstand the crisis, which follows reduced leagues club support because of the State Government's poker machine tax and changes to smoking legislation. For the past year, the clubs have been looking to other sources of revenue.

"It will be tight, but they will be resilient . . . to some extent, our clubs have been forced to cut their cloth to fit their suit for some time now," Gallop said.

He said rugby league had held up well this year with crowds similar to last year and club memberships up 24 per cent. "People are looking to sport to get away from the pressures of their mortgages," Gallop said.

"But there is no doubt people's discretionary spending will be impacted. This is certainly going to impact at club level to some extent, and it further emphasises the impact of the poker machine tax."
 
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TOCC

Guest
your jumping the gun a bit, theres going to be plenty of fluff articles like this in the next few weeks
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Cutter said:
The NRL suffered when it had 20 teams or 22 teams in the 90s. Yes, we should get a fifth team, but 2010 is too early for mine without a competition at a level below which lets us see which players can handle the jump.

I agree. Let the Japs have a team and bring their wonderful yen to the table. They've got a lot of it and will help prop up our game while us and the Kiwis piss money up a wall trying to retain talent.
 
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TOCC

Guest
either way it happens, i hope they just dont rule out a 5th team.

If a Jap team is entered in 2010/11 and then a 5th Aussie side in 2012/13 then there should be no dramas. It might actually be a wise idea for the ARU to create the team for the 2012 season and ride the publicity wave created by the RWC in NZ.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
i think we should accept the fifth franchise then sell it to japan, have a half japanese, half aussie team over there, then when it expands again, put the fifth team in melbourne or wherever and pull our players out of japan, allows us to blood more players, allows a japanese team to enter and be more competitive with some older experianced players in there start up team.

im sure it wouldnt be a stretch for sanzar when the money factor kicked in!
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
It is likely that if the 15th team went to Japan, the I would assume that players from all the sanzar countries would be available to prop it up. It would be good if these players were exempt from the foreign based player rule, when it came to rep games.
 
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